Teja Yenamandra - Gun.io

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Hey, look.

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Look who it is.

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sorry.

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Look what I just.

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Look,

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look what I got for you.

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That looks great,

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That looks. Yeah.

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Yeah. I'm feeling.

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I'm feeling

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very Joe Rogan right

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now, dude.

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So. So. Yeah.

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So what part of New York

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are you in right now?

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I have been all over

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the island,

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and I like, I'm

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staying in the Lower

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East Side.

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I've been up on 59th,

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and then I went down

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to Irving Place,

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and then I had to

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go to Balthazar.

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Like,

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I basically

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it's all just sort of

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wherever the Uber driver,

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is, is currently taking me.

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and I, I'm,

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I like I've been planning it

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so much

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so that it's, it's

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literally within minutes.

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And Matt, who's running

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this whole show is amazing.

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And I, I

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what do I walk in like

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12 minutes

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before I start doing this.

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So I'm in that I'm in that

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is this founder mode ?

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I read that I

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read that article.

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I fucking believe it.

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That's real.

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I know it's

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getting a lot of heat,

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but I 100% agree with no,

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no, no.

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But I also have lived

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so long in

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whatever the opposite is,

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which is like,

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I need you in the office.

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There are levels

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in hierarchy.

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You just need to like,

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I need everyone

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to come in here.

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I have things to say. Yeah.

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Now I want you all to go

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have separate,

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smaller meetings

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and talk about

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what I talked about.

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You know what I mean? Versus,

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you know, versus

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the thing that I

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and I'm not

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I want to talk to you,

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but like,

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I literally this moment

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is, this week

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we did we released

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an, iPhone two days ago.

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Android's getting submitted

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as we speak.

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It's Chrome,

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Firefox, edge, and,

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and Mac is next week.

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And PCs,

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we have two that I like.

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I think it's

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one of those things

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that like

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if you were to release

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an extension

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in a sort of normal,

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we would have

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we would have focus

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groups about it.

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We would sort of talk

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about like

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how this is going to work

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and it's just so different

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when you're like, no, no, no,

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no, this what we do

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this, let's ship

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it, let's get it out. Yeah.

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So do this.

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So I'll be in New York

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tonight.

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I'm flying in tonight.

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Yeah.

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I have to go to

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a conference tomorrow.

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so, yeah.

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That's it. I have your.

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I’ll try to ping you

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see if we can like

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gather tonight.

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Let's do it.

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Let's do it.

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That sounds good.

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So let's rewind

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for a second.

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I was on your podcast

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and you said

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you should have a podcast,

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and now I have a podcast.

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And now that you're on it,

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let's go.

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Well, yeah, let's do it.

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Yeah, let's do it.

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So

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all right, let's go back to

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there was

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there was such good stuff

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that you talked about when we

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when we talked last time.

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And I want to sort of circle

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back to that.

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And that's,

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you know, one of the things

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that you mentioned

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in the early Gun.io era that

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I resonated so much with

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and the idea of Zero to Umm,

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is sort of like,

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I get 0 to 1,

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I get it, that sounds great.

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What what is one

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like when you're

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first starting right,

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you just want some clients.

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We can have enough money

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and you got to get some

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people and like,

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where is one?

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And I love the gray space

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of those early days.

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And that's what

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I want to sort of talk

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about and start with was,

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you know, is,

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is that early,

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you know,

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what was the idea

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or when did it start

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that you,

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you had that switch flip

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and you were like,

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this is it.

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I'm a I'm a builder thing.

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Like, you know, like take

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take me back to the early,

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the early Gun

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era in that moment

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when you sort of started

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putting pieces together.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I've like, given

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different sanitized

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versions of the story.

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And so I'll try to, like,

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maybe quickly summarize,

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so my friends and I,

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one that I met in China

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and then one that

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I knew from college,

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we were always

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like, entrepreneurial

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and we always, like,

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had some interesting things,

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like cooking,

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like, separately, like,

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not even together.

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And, you know, I think,

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so one of my buddies

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and I,

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we were working on

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a separate business,

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basically, like,

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have off campus

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listing, like, for colleges.

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Right. And so we were.

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Yeah,

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this is a long story,

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but it'll tie back

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to what you're asking.

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Like, we were using WordPress

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basically as a directory

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to, like,

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put these listings on

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for like Realtors

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that were in small

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college towns.

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We would charge them a fee,

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and we basically ran

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up to the limits of what

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the tech could do.

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So we needed to find

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a PHP developer.

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And because you know,

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we could tinker with it.

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We were also working

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with a firm

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like in Pennsylvania

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at the time,

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and I think

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we were just like,

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like, this is a lot

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and like vicious,

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like so much.

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So many people

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have that threshold

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where they're like,

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should I be continuing

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to do this on WordPress?

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It's so Frankenstein

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now that it's like,

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I think it's time

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to leave for something else.

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Yeah, totally.

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So, you know, do

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we build our own, okay.

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What's that going

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to look like?

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You know, how do we do that?

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And so we basically

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reached out to my,

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to my third buddy,

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and I was like, hey,

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we need to do this.

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And he was like,

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oh, that's

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that's interesting.

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You know, it's

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going to cost X, Y, and Z.

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And I was like,

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that's interesting.

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You know,

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I don't know, like

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I would have to pre-sell

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a bunch

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more to be able

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to afford to do this build.

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And I was like,

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maybe I need to

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take on freelance

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work to like,

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go basically support us

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building this thing.

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And so after a series

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of conversations,

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what we basically came

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to is we were like,

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the actual idea

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is probably

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somewhere and like,

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we should just

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build a business

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that enables people

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to find like

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vetted developers,

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because that actually

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seems like

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way more of a pain point

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because I we

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that was like

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the critical choke point

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for us

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to be able to do our thing

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like as a company. Right.

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Wait, what?

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And what was that

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period between we

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we bought a domain,

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we set up word WordPress

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and then

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and then we sort of pivoted

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to, to developers.

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What was that

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times a good question.

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It was about a year

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into building that off

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campus business.

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And so like I,

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I'm a sales person at heart.

302
01:01:50,500 --> 01:01:53,416
Like my first like action

303
01:01:53,416 --> 01:01:54,500
with the off campus

304
01:01:54,500 --> 01:01:55,458
listing thing

305
01:01:55,458 --> 01:01:55,916
was like

306
01:01:55,916 --> 01:01:56,916
we just one cold

307
01:01:56,916 --> 01:01:57,625
called a bunch of

308
01:01:57,625 --> 01:01:59,208
realtors, right?

309
01:01:59,208 --> 01:02:00,416
And that was it, right?

310
01:02:00,416 --> 01:02:00,958
You just like,

311
01:02:00,958 --> 01:02:02,125
did that eight hours a day.

312
01:02:02,125 --> 01:02:02,583
You funnel

313
01:02:02,583 --> 01:02:03,583
this one after like,

314
01:02:03,583 --> 01:02:04,833
hey, yeah, this thing,

315
01:02:04,833 --> 01:02:05,375
do you want to do

316
01:02:05,375 --> 01:02:06,583
business with us?

317
01:02:06,583 --> 01:02:08,041
I think markets have gotten

318
01:02:08,041 --> 01:02:09,166
more saturated today,

319
01:02:09,166 --> 01:02:09,875
so it's probably

320
01:02:09,875 --> 01:02:10,916
harder to do that.

321
01:02:12,041 --> 01:02:12,958
it's my observation,

322
01:02:12,958 --> 01:02:13,666
but yeah,

323
01:02:13,666 --> 01:02:15,125
I was about a year into that

324
01:02:15,125 --> 01:02:16,000
and we had generated

325
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,083
some revenue. Not much.

326
01:02:18,083 --> 01:02:19,708
and so we

327
01:02:19,708 --> 01:02:20,666
kind of made a decision,

328
01:02:20,666 --> 01:02:22,666
like as a group like, hey,

329
01:02:22,666 --> 01:02:23,333
we should try

330
01:02:23,333 --> 01:02:24,166
this other thing

331
01:02:24,166 --> 01:02:25,916
with vetted developers.

332
01:02:25,916 --> 01:02:26,416
And there were a

333
01:02:26,416 --> 01:02:27,625
couple of companies, like,

334
01:02:27,625 --> 01:02:29,375
kind of doing this already,

335
01:02:29,375 --> 01:02:31,583
like on a very small scale.

336
01:02:31,583 --> 01:02:33,083
the space has since,

337
01:02:33,083 --> 01:02:33,291
you know,

338
01:02:33,291 --> 01:02:34,375
gotten more mature

339
01:02:34,375 --> 01:02:35,875
and people have rebranded

340
01:02:35,875 --> 01:02:37,708
and blah, blah, blah, but,

341
01:02:37,708 --> 01:02:38,416
yeah,

342
01:02:38,416 --> 01:02:39,833
that was this about a year

343
01:02:39,833 --> 01:02:40,666
into operation

344
01:02:40,666 --> 01:02:41,875
that we just basically shut

345
01:02:41,875 --> 01:02:43,583
that concern down,

346
01:02:43,583 --> 01:02:45,166
then basically

347
01:02:45,166 --> 01:02:46,666
made a new concern,

348
01:02:46,666 --> 01:02:49,000
like a new C-Corp

349
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,500
or a C-Corp had the domain

350
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:53,041
and then, you know,

351
01:02:53,041 --> 01:02:55,333
built a V1 and got after it.

352
01:02:55,333 --> 01:02:56,708
So that's

353
01:02:56,708 --> 01:02:58,541
But who's, who's working

354
01:02:58,541 --> 01:02:59,416
other jobs, who's

355
01:02:59,416 --> 01:03:00,291
doing other things

356
01:03:00,291 --> 01:03:00,916
during this period?

357
01:03:00,916 --> 01:03:01,625
Is everyone

358
01:03:01,625 --> 01:03:01,916
sort of

359
01:03:01,916 --> 01:03:02,708
have a job as an

360
01:03:02,708 --> 01:03:03,625
or how much

361
01:03:03,625 --> 01:03:05,000
what was the focus

362
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:06,166
during that that year?

363
01:03:06,166 --> 01:03:07,375
And then also into the pivot?

364
01:03:07,375 --> 01:03:08,916
That's a great question. So

365
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:12,125
at the

366
01:03:12,125 --> 01:03:14,125
time I did

367
01:03:14,125 --> 01:03:15,916
not have another job.

368
01:03:15,916 --> 01:03:18,500
I had some money

369
01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:19,708
that I had saved up

370
01:03:19,708 --> 01:03:20,500
from working

371
01:03:20,500 --> 01:03:23,000
overseas in China.

372
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:24,708
same with my same

373
01:03:24,708 --> 01:03:26,625
with my other buddy

374
01:03:26,625 --> 01:03:28,416
and then my third buddy,

375
01:03:28,416 --> 01:03:29,958
our, our CTO at the time.

376
01:03:29,958 --> 01:03:31,458
He,

377
01:03:31,458 --> 01:03:32,708
I think he was working on

378
01:03:32,708 --> 01:03:34,166
some freelance contracts.

379
01:03:34,166 --> 01:03:35,625
So he had some

380
01:03:35,625 --> 01:03:36,666
income coming in,

381
01:03:36,666 --> 01:03:39,666
but we were basically like,

382
01:03:39,833 --> 01:03:41,000
we were basically like, hey,

383
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:41,583
we're going to

384
01:03:41,583 --> 01:03:42,125
like burn

385
01:03:42,125 --> 01:03:43,000
through our savings

386
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:44,000
for like a year

387
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,666
to get this business scaled.

388
01:03:45,666 --> 01:03:47,000
and like, that was it

389
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:48,000
you know,

390
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,625
so the definition of all in.

391
01:03:49,625 --> 01:03:52,416
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

392
01:03:52,416 --> 01:03:53,666
Because at the time

393
01:03:53,666 --> 01:03:55,250
we were just like, well,

394
01:03:55,250 --> 01:03:56,416
we'll like bookend it

395
01:03:56,416 --> 01:03:57,833
to a year, right?

396
01:03:57,833 --> 01:03:59,208
And I was pretty confident

397
01:03:59,208 --> 01:03:59,666
that, like,

398
01:03:59,666 --> 01:04:01,458
I could get revenue

399
01:04:01,458 --> 01:04:02,375
into the business

400
01:04:02,375 --> 01:04:04,166
in like two months.

401
01:04:04,166 --> 01:04:04,541
Right.

402
01:04:04,541 --> 01:04:05,958
And so I wasn't

403
01:04:05,958 --> 01:04:07,750
I wasn't worried about

404
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:11,041
like, is this, is this,

405
01:04:12,333 --> 01:04:13,250
our adventure?

406
01:04:13,250 --> 01:04:14,250
I was more so like,

407
01:04:14,250 --> 01:04:16,833
when will us burning through

408
01:04:16,833 --> 01:04:18,791
like 60 grand of savings

409
01:04:18,791 --> 01:04:21,375
each start to yield,

410
01:04:21,375 --> 01:04:22,875
and generate an income.

411
01:04:22,875 --> 01:04:23,375
But I

412
01:04:23,375 --> 01:04:24,291
kind of figured that, like,

413
01:04:24,291 --> 01:04:27,041
in the first couple of months

414
01:04:27,041 --> 01:04:28,666
into Gun, we could

415
01:04:28,666 --> 01:04:29,666
we could

416
01:04:29,666 --> 01:04:32,416
make enough to where, like,

417
01:04:32,416 --> 01:04:33,708
hey, we should get a grand,

418
01:04:33,708 --> 01:04:34,250
two grand

419
01:04:34,250 --> 01:04:35,541
coming in

420
01:04:35,541 --> 01:04:37,625
that pays for eating,

421
01:04:37,625 --> 01:04:39,375
maybe not rent, you know.

422
01:04:39,375 --> 01:04:41,541
right.

423
01:04:41,541 --> 01:04:42,458
So that's

424
01:04:42,458 --> 01:04:43,041
that's just how

425
01:04:43,041 --> 01:04:44,250
we thought about it.

426
01:04:44,250 --> 01:04:44,541
This is

427
01:04:44,541 --> 01:04:45,833
this was a long time ago,

428
01:04:45,833 --> 01:04:46,958
I think, like,

429
01:04:46,958 --> 01:04:48,500
the markets have changed

430
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:49,041
tremendously.

431
01:04:49,041 --> 01:04:49,291
Like, it's

432
01:04:49,291 --> 01:04:50,208
very hard to live off

433
01:04:50,208 --> 01:04:51,708
two grand a month.

434
01:04:51,708 --> 01:04:53,000
Yeah. Yeah, totally.

435
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,250
You know, but where did that.

436
01:04:55,250 --> 01:04:56,375
But where did that come from

437
01:04:56,375 --> 01:04:57,583
from a mindset perspective

438
01:04:57,583 --> 01:04:58,625
like and we'll go back

439
01:04:58,625 --> 01:05:00,916
a little bit further but like

440
01:05:00,916 --> 01:05:02,333
is that

441
01:05:02,333 --> 01:05:03,166
have you always sort of

442
01:05:03,166 --> 01:05:04,083
been like what

443
01:05:04,083 --> 01:05:05,166
what got to that place

444
01:05:05,166 --> 01:05:05,875
where you

445
01:05:05,875 --> 01:05:07,000
decided to go into it

446
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:07,583
and you were like,

447
01:05:07,583 --> 01:05:08,166
let's burn, I'm

448
01:05:08,166 --> 01:05:09,166
going to burn through 60

449
01:05:09,166 --> 01:05:10,791
grand worth of savings

450
01:05:10,791 --> 01:05:11,541
because I know this is going

451
01:05:11,541 --> 01:05:12,750
to work versus that.

452
01:05:12,750 --> 01:05:13,791
Like,

453
01:05:13,791 --> 01:05:14,333
let me test

454
01:05:14,333 --> 01:05:15,041
a little something.

455
01:05:15,041 --> 01:05:15,666
Let me put a little

456
01:05:15,666 --> 01:05:16,500
POC out there.

457
01:05:16,500 --> 01:05:17,583
Let me ask a few customers

458
01:05:17,583 --> 01:05:18,541
if they want it.

459
01:05:18,541 --> 01:05:19,833
Maybe before

460
01:05:19,833 --> 01:05:21,000
I start to dive into it

461
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:22,041
versus like,

462
01:05:22,041 --> 01:05:23,083
no, I know this is the thing

463
01:05:23,083 --> 01:05:23,833
and I'm going to go do it

464
01:05:23,833 --> 01:05:24,250
and burnout

465
01:05:24,250 --> 01:05:25,041
and burn through all that.

466
01:05:25,041 --> 01:05:27,083
Like, what was is that a

467
01:05:27,083 --> 01:05:28,041
is that how you're built?

468
01:05:28,041 --> 01:05:28,500
Is that something

469
01:05:28,500 --> 01:05:29,416
you learn from a family

470
01:05:29,416 --> 01:05:30,666
perspective or ?

471
01:05:30,666 --> 01:05:32,250
Yeah, that's a good question.

472
01:05:32,250 --> 01:05:33,916
no. No family.

473
01:05:33,916 --> 01:05:34,541
I mean, my

474
01:05:34,541 --> 01:05:35,958
my parents to this day

475
01:05:35,958 --> 01:05:36,583
still think I'm

476
01:05:36,583 --> 01:05:37,583
under-educated

477
01:05:37,583 --> 01:05:38,541
for only having

478
01:05:38,541 --> 01:05:39,291
a bachelor's degree,

479
01:05:39,291 --> 01:05:40,250
which is funny, right?

480
01:05:40,250 --> 01:05:41,291
Because you did

481
01:05:41,291 --> 01:05:43,125
so when you grow up

482
01:05:43,125 --> 01:05:44,000
around Indian people

483
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:44,416
that like

484
01:05:44,416 --> 01:05:45,625
if you have a masters,

485
01:05:45,625 --> 01:05:46,208
then you're like

486
01:05:46,208 --> 01:05:46,708
starting to be

487
01:05:46,708 --> 01:05:47,583
educated anyway.

488
01:05:47,583 --> 01:05:49,166
So yeah, there's no

489
01:05:49,166 --> 01:05:50,208
entrepreneurial path

490
01:05:50,208 --> 01:05:52,833
in my family generally. So

491
01:05:53,958 --> 01:05:56,791
I think,

492
01:05:56,791 --> 01:05:57,458
this is here on

493
01:05:57,458 --> 01:05:59,958
on the question, it was like,

494
01:05:59,958 --> 01:06:00,458
where did the

495
01:06:00,458 --> 01:06:01,458
mindset come from

496
01:06:01,458 --> 01:06:03,250
of being all in?

497
01:06:03,250 --> 01:06:05,458
I think,

498
01:06:05,458 --> 01:06:08,166
you know, I didn't see like

499
01:06:08,166 --> 01:06:10,291
an, like another alternative.

500
01:06:10,291 --> 01:06:11,416
Like I just in my head

501
01:06:11,416 --> 01:06:11,958
I was like,

502
01:06:11,958 --> 01:06:12,833
I think that we

503
01:06:12,833 --> 01:06:14,333
can make this work.

504
01:06:14,333 --> 01:06:14,833
And I know

505
01:06:14,833 --> 01:06:15,583
I'm gonna work hard

506
01:06:15,583 --> 01:06:16,625
at making it work.

507
01:06:16,625 --> 01:06:18,416
And I mentioned this on,

508
01:06:18,416 --> 01:06:19,916
on another podcast,

509
01:06:19,916 --> 01:06:20,333
but it's like

510
01:06:20,333 --> 01:06:20,916
I was like, man,

511
01:06:20,916 --> 01:06:22,125
if Mark Zuckerberg,

512
01:06:22,125 --> 01:06:23,208
who went to Harvard, like,

513
01:06:23,208 --> 01:06:24,625
can build $1 billion company,

514
01:06:24,625 --> 01:06:25,833
I want his fucking safety

515
01:06:25,833 --> 01:06:26,208
school.

516
01:06:26,208 --> 01:06:26,875
Like, I could build

517
01:06:26,875 --> 01:06:28,375
$1 million business,

518
01:06:28,375 --> 01:06:29,583
like, take me twice as long,

519
01:06:29,583 --> 01:06:30,750
but I know I could do it.

520
01:06:30,750 --> 01:06:31,750
You know what? I'm totally.

521
01:06:31,750 --> 01:06:32,375
Yeah, yeah.

522
01:06:32,375 --> 01:06:33,458
Good team with you.

523
01:06:33,458 --> 01:06:34,958
You got two cool founders

524
01:06:34,958 --> 01:06:35,750
that are good friends.

525
01:06:35,750 --> 01:06:36,583
Like, I don't know, like,

526
01:06:36,583 --> 01:06:37,750
you can make it happen

527
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:38,541
with three people.

528
01:06:38,541 --> 01:06:42,083
And so, yeah, I think

529
01:06:42,333 --> 01:06:43,875
as far as the implementation,

530
01:06:43,875 --> 01:06:45,166
like POC versus

531
01:06:45,166 --> 01:06:45,833
putting it out there

532
01:06:45,833 --> 01:06:47,541
versus testing,

533
01:06:47,541 --> 01:06:47,791
you know,

534
01:06:47,791 --> 01:06:49,583
I just had a meeting today

535
01:06:49,583 --> 01:06:50,041
and we were

536
01:06:50,041 --> 01:06:50,958
talking about this.

537
01:06:50,958 --> 01:06:52,125
But in a startup,

538
01:06:52,125 --> 01:06:53,208
I kind of think like it's

539
01:06:53,208 --> 01:06:54,083
so important

540
01:06:54,083 --> 01:06:55,125
to like

541
01:06:55,125 --> 01:06:56,125
hold in your head

542
01:06:56,125 --> 01:06:58,208
multiple possibilities.

543
01:06:58,208 --> 01:06:58,625
Right.

544
01:06:58,625 --> 01:07:00,916
And so we basically built

545
01:07:00,916 --> 01:07:01,916
to go to market.

546
01:07:01,916 --> 01:07:04,125
We built the smallest version

547
01:07:04,125 --> 01:07:04,583
of what

548
01:07:04,583 --> 01:07:05,166
I thought

549
01:07:05,166 --> 01:07:06,125
we could sell

550
01:07:06,125 --> 01:07:08,041
to customers at the time,

551
01:07:08,041 --> 01:07:09,416
just like we were like,

552
01:07:09,416 --> 01:07:10,708
what is the smallest

553
01:07:10,708 --> 01:07:12,333
amount of development costs

554
01:07:12,333 --> 01:07:13,083
we can bear,

555
01:07:13,083 --> 01:07:14,750
measured in time

556
01:07:14,750 --> 01:07:15,916
to go to market with,

557
01:07:15,916 --> 01:07:17,125
to generate revenue?

558
01:07:17,125 --> 01:07:17,791
And I knew that.

559
01:07:19,375 --> 01:07:20,125
I knew that if we

560
01:07:20,125 --> 01:07:21,750
could generate revenue,

561
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:22,708
I could unlock

562
01:07:22,708 --> 01:07:23,500
a whole series

563
01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:24,333
of other things,

564
01:07:24,333 --> 01:07:25,083
like I could get people

565
01:07:25,083 --> 01:07:26,416
excited about it,

566
01:07:26,416 --> 01:07:27,791
I could raise investment,

567
01:07:27,791 --> 01:07:30,333
I could, you know, get debt.

568
01:07:30,333 --> 01:07:31,250
You know, at the time,

569
01:07:31,250 --> 01:07:31,708
I didn't know that

570
01:07:31,708 --> 01:07:32,791
to get company debt, you

571
01:07:32,791 --> 01:07:34,041
and have a personal guarantee

572
01:07:34,041 --> 01:07:34,458
all that stuff

573
01:07:34,458 --> 01:07:35,250
to find out later.

574
01:07:35,250 --> 01:07:36,791
But I was just like, yeah,

575
01:07:36,791 --> 01:07:38,333
if I could get a dollar

576
01:07:38,333 --> 01:07:39,500
out of this business,

577
01:07:39,500 --> 01:07:42,416
I know I could like, sell the

578
01:07:42,416 --> 01:07:43,791
the value to be able

579
01:07:43,791 --> 01:07:44,208
to get the

580
01:07:44,208 --> 01:07:45,250
resources to scale.

581
01:07:45,250 --> 01:07:46,208
So

582
01:07:46,208 --> 01:07:47,875
basically I just try to like

583
01:07:47,875 --> 01:07:48,541
we try to laser

584
01:07:48,541 --> 01:07:49,583
focus on that.

585
01:07:49,583 --> 01:07:50,791
I think

586
01:07:50,791 --> 01:07:52,791
it took us about like

587
01:07:52,791 --> 01:07:53,500
a couple weeks

588
01:07:53,500 --> 01:07:54,166
to get to something,

589
01:07:54,166 --> 01:07:55,166
commercializable

590
01:07:55,166 --> 01:07:56,750
and then we just

591
01:07:56,750 --> 01:07:57,666
kind of the phones.

592
01:07:57,666 --> 01:07:59,041
So it was a very short

593
01:07:59,041 --> 01:07:59,958
turnaround time

594
01:07:59,958 --> 01:08:01,041
to like me being like,

595
01:08:01,041 --> 01:08:01,375
all right,

596
01:08:01,375 --> 01:08:02,375
idea,

597
01:08:02,375 --> 01:08:04,041
let's get this done, let's

598
01:08:04,041 --> 01:08:05,291
execute and scale.

599
01:08:05,291 --> 01:08:06,458
And then

600
01:08:06,458 --> 01:08:08,291
as we got customer feedback,

601
01:08:09,250 --> 01:08:10,166
then we would

602
01:08:10,166 --> 01:08:10,750
we would put

603
01:08:10,750 --> 01:08:11,625
that into the product.

604
01:08:11,625 --> 01:08:12,208
We would iterate

605
01:08:12,208 --> 01:08:13,500
on the product

606
01:08:13,500 --> 01:08:15,000
to try to like

607
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:16,916
get more revenue. Right.

608
01:08:16,916 --> 01:08:18,500
so like really fast

609
01:08:18,500 --> 01:08:21,500
cycle times between

610
01:08:21,625 --> 01:08:22,708
go to market,

611
01:08:22,708 --> 01:08:23,458
convincing people

612
01:08:23,458 --> 01:08:25,250
to do business with us

613
01:08:25,250 --> 01:08:28,166
and, generating revenue.

614
01:08:28,166 --> 01:08:29,166
So,

615
01:08:29,166 --> 01:08:30,750
that first year,

616
01:08:30,750 --> 01:08:31,333
I think we did like

617
01:08:31,333 --> 01:08:32,708
60 grand in revenue,

618
01:08:32,708 --> 01:08:33,625
something like that.

619
01:08:33,625 --> 01:08:34,541
Amazing.

620
01:08:34,541 --> 01:08:37,333
So yeah.

621
01:08:37,333 --> 01:08:39,166
so 20 grand each basically.

622
01:08:39,166 --> 01:08:39,916
Or like maybe

623
01:08:39,916 --> 01:08:41,916
it was like 15 grand each

624
01:08:41,916 --> 01:08:43,541
plus 20 to the business,

625
01:08:43,541 --> 01:08:43,750
you know,

626
01:08:43,750 --> 01:08:44,708
something like that.

627
01:08:44,708 --> 01:08:45,875
So you can see it,

628
01:08:45,875 --> 01:08:47,250
you can see where it's going.

629
01:08:47,250 --> 01:08:49,166
And even my by covering,

630
01:08:49,166 --> 01:08:49,625
like I said,

631
01:08:49,625 --> 01:08:50,958
some of the personal costs

632
01:08:50,958 --> 01:08:51,541
and expenses

633
01:08:51,541 --> 01:08:52,041
and stuff like that,

634
01:08:52,041 --> 01:08:52,333
you're like,

635
01:08:52,333 --> 01:08:52,750
oh, I can,

636
01:08:52,750 --> 01:08:54,083
I can taste it if we just do,

637
01:08:54,083 --> 01:08:54,416
you know,

638
01:08:54,416 --> 01:08:55,500
if we do twice this,

639
01:08:55,500 --> 01:08:56,875
then that. I'm pretty good.

640
01:08:56,875 --> 01:08:57,625
If we do three times

641
01:08:57,625 --> 01:08:58,666
this, I'm amazing.

642
01:08:58,666 --> 01:08:59,666
Yeah, yeah.

643
01:08:59,666 --> 01:09:01,583
And like, you know, I mean,

644
01:09:01,583 --> 01:09:04,041
it's funny, like, even like,

645
01:09:04,041 --> 01:09:05,125
that's all it is, right?

646
01:09:05,125 --> 01:09:06,208
It's just you and like,

647
01:09:06,208 --> 01:09:07,041
your co-founders

648
01:09:07,041 --> 01:09:08,041
like getting after it,

649
01:09:08,041 --> 01:09:09,250
covering all the bases,

650
01:09:09,250 --> 01:09:09,916
trying to make sure

651
01:09:09,916 --> 01:09:10,791
you guys are focused

652
01:09:10,791 --> 01:09:12,416
on getting revenue.

653
01:09:12,416 --> 01:09:13,250
That's it.

654
01:09:13,250 --> 01:09:13,833
You know.

655
01:09:13,833 --> 01:09:15,750
So that's when it's great.

656
01:09:15,750 --> 01:09:16,791
So it's great

657
01:09:16,791 --> 01:09:17,875
you had a support system

658
01:09:17,875 --> 01:09:19,208
like turn that in your

659
01:09:19,208 --> 01:09:20,708
in your co-founders like yeah

660
01:09:20,708 --> 01:09:21,166
you know

661
01:09:21,166 --> 01:09:21,750
did did

662
01:09:21,750 --> 01:09:22,916
everyone have a little

663
01:09:22,916 --> 01:09:25,041
bit of a role or

664
01:09:25,041 --> 01:09:25,458
you know,

665
01:09:25,458 --> 01:09:27,416
how did that work from,

666
01:09:27,416 --> 01:09:28,916
from sort of emotional

667
01:09:28,916 --> 01:09:30,500
and psychological support

668
01:09:30,500 --> 01:09:32,166
going through the like,

669
01:09:32,166 --> 01:09:33,500
is this going to work?

670
01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:34,208
So, you know, you know,

671
01:09:34,208 --> 01:09:35,333
what's funny is like,

672
01:09:35,333 --> 01:09:37,458
I so I considered myself,

673
01:09:37,458 --> 01:09:38,666
like the least qualified

674
01:09:38,666 --> 01:09:39,916
to be the chief executive,

675
01:09:39,916 --> 01:09:41,125
but I knew both of them

676
01:09:41,125 --> 01:09:41,666
better than they

677
01:09:41,666 --> 01:09:42,500
knew each other.

678
01:09:42,500 --> 01:09:43,583
So I think

679
01:09:43,583 --> 01:09:44,916
they were happy

680
01:09:44,916 --> 01:09:45,458
with me

681
01:09:45,458 --> 01:09:47,875
being in that role, like,

682
01:09:47,875 --> 01:09:49,250
but not either of them,

683
01:09:49,250 --> 01:09:50,125
because they didn't have

684
01:09:50,125 --> 01:09:52,041
that trust yet. Now

685
01:09:53,291 --> 01:09:54,083
maybe they'd tell

686
01:09:54,083 --> 01:09:54,833
it differently.

687
01:09:54,833 --> 01:09:55,666
Maybe they'd be

688
01:09:55,666 --> 01:09:57,000
more charitable and be like,

689
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:58,250
no, you were fit for it.

690
01:09:58,250 --> 01:09:59,000
But I think, like,

691
01:09:59,000 --> 01:09:59,958
that's just how

692
01:09:59,958 --> 01:10:01,000
things shook out.

693
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:05,958
but as far as the duties

694
01:10:05,958 --> 01:10:07,458
and not the title goes,

695
01:10:07,458 --> 01:10:08,541
I mean, basically

696
01:10:08,541 --> 01:10:10,250
me and JP, we were

697
01:10:10,250 --> 01:10:12,125
we were on the sales and

698
01:10:12,125 --> 01:10:13,125
I think actually

699
01:10:13,125 --> 01:10:14,833
he was more marketing,

700
01:10:14,833 --> 01:10:16,375
like getting content,

701
01:10:16,375 --> 01:10:17,208
trying to promote

702
01:10:17,208 --> 01:10:18,000
distribution,

703
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,375
trying to increase traffic.

704
01:10:19,375 --> 01:10:21,250
I was more sales and,

705
01:10:21,250 --> 01:10:22,333
and then rich,

706
01:10:22,333 --> 01:10:23,750
who was our CTO

707
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:24,708
like founding CTO,

708
01:10:24,708 --> 01:10:27,041
he was more technical.

709
01:10:27,041 --> 01:10:27,666
And so we've

710
01:10:27,666 --> 01:10:28,416
kind of covered

711
01:10:28,416 --> 01:10:29,958
different areas.

712
01:10:29,958 --> 01:10:31,333
both me and JP

713
01:10:31,333 --> 01:10:32,125
would be involved in

714
01:10:32,125 --> 01:10:33,291
like the business shit,

715
01:10:33,291 --> 01:10:36,166
like doing our annual filings

716
01:10:36,166 --> 01:10:37,041
and like making sure

717
01:10:37,041 --> 01:10:38,250
we're paying our taxes.

718
01:10:38,250 --> 01:10:38,458
Yeah.

719
01:10:38,458 --> 01:10:39,208
Setting up our

720
01:10:39,208 --> 01:10:40,416
stripe, you know what I mean?

721
01:10:41,750 --> 01:10:42,291
stuff.

722
01:10:42,291 --> 01:10:43,083
And Rich would be

723
01:10:43,083 --> 01:10:44,541
more like in the code.

724
01:10:44,541 --> 01:10:45,791
but we all contributed,

725
01:10:45,791 --> 01:10:46,666
like, across the business,

726
01:10:46,666 --> 01:10:47,791
you know, if, like,

727
01:10:47,791 --> 01:10:49,458
something needed,

728
01:10:49,458 --> 01:10:50,875
like, some copy on the site

729
01:10:50,875 --> 01:10:52,333
needed to be changed

730
01:10:52,333 --> 01:10:53,541
based on what a customer told

731
01:10:53,541 --> 01:10:54,500
us, I would go in there

732
01:10:54,500 --> 01:10:56,208
and I would try to adjust it.

733
01:10:56,208 --> 01:10:57,625
If Rich got an email

734
01:10:57,625 --> 01:10:58,916
with a company,

735
01:10:58,916 --> 01:10:59,208
you know,

736
01:10:59,208 --> 01:11:00,541
he would talk to the account

737
01:11:00,541 --> 01:11:01,666
or he would forward it to me

738
01:11:01,666 --> 01:11:03,000
and JP like we were just,

739
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:04,500
you know, it's

740
01:11:04,500 --> 01:11:06,083
overlapping concerns

741
01:11:06,083 --> 01:11:06,708
because you're all trying

742
01:11:06,708 --> 01:11:08,333
to grow the business, so.

743
01:11:08,333 --> 01:11:11,208
Right. yeah.

744
01:11:11,208 --> 01:11:11,750
Nice.

745
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:12,875
What about like

746
01:11:12,875 --> 01:11:14,083
during those early periods

747
01:11:14,083 --> 01:11:15,708
did you have I mean, it

748
01:11:15,708 --> 01:11:17,416
sound like you,

749
01:11:17,416 --> 01:11:18,500
you were pretty confident

750
01:11:18,500 --> 01:11:19,666
in being able to do this.

751
01:11:19,666 --> 01:11:21,000
Did you have

752
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:21,958
obviously there's there's

753
01:11:21,958 --> 01:11:22,375
the tape

754
01:11:22,375 --> 01:11:23,458
playing in your head,

755
01:11:23,458 --> 01:11:24,208
you know, every now

756
01:11:24,208 --> 01:11:24,791
and then of like,

757
01:11:24,791 --> 01:11:25,666
is this going to work?

758
01:11:25,666 --> 01:11:27,083
Is this what am I doing?

759
01:11:27,083 --> 01:11:27,958
Or like

760
01:11:27,958 --> 01:11:28,958
there's a little bit of that,

761
01:11:28,958 --> 01:11:29,958
but did you ever have

762
01:11:29,958 --> 01:11:30,625
sort of the

763
01:11:30,625 --> 01:11:31,666
the valley periods

764
01:11:31,666 --> 01:11:32,333
where you were like,

765
01:11:32,333 --> 01:11:33,750
I, I really don't know

766
01:11:33,750 --> 01:11:34,291
if this is going

767
01:11:34,291 --> 01:11:34,958
to work or not?

768
01:11:34,958 --> 01:11:35,750
or did

769
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:37,708
it always feel pretty,

770
01:11:37,708 --> 01:11:39,333
pretty laser focus on like,

771
01:11:39,333 --> 01:11:41,291
I think if I just keep going,

772
01:11:41,291 --> 01:11:42,041
then it's

773
01:11:42,041 --> 01:11:42,875
going to turn into something.

774
01:11:42,875 --> 01:11:43,916
Oh, every year.

775
01:11:43,916 --> 01:11:44,416
I mean, we've been

776
01:11:45,416 --> 01:11:46,458
every year I have

777
01:11:46,458 --> 01:11:48,166
probably a month

778
01:11:48,166 --> 01:11:49,208
where I'm like,

779
01:11:49,208 --> 01:11:52,208
like, f#!%, we're f*%!ed.

780
01:11:52,458 --> 01:11:53,750
I just that's it.

781
01:11:53,750 --> 01:11:54,958
What else should I get into?

782
01:11:54,958 --> 01:11:56,833
Should I do do something else

783
01:11:56,833 --> 01:11:57,750
if that happens?

784
01:11:57,750 --> 01:11:59,000
But I think like

785
01:11:59,000 --> 01:11:59,833
and like also

786
01:11:59,833 --> 01:12:00,416
that happens

787
01:12:00,416 --> 01:12:02,083
in the span of a day

788
01:12:02,083 --> 01:12:03,125
to like you like

789
01:12:03,125 --> 01:12:03,833
get out of a meeting.

790
01:12:03,833 --> 01:12:04,916
You're like super frustrated.

791
01:12:04,916 --> 01:12:05,125
Like,

792
01:12:05,125 --> 01:12:06,375
why isn't this going well?

793
01:12:06,375 --> 01:12:07,208
Like, what's happening?

794
01:12:07,208 --> 01:12:08,333
We have this role,

795
01:12:08,333 --> 01:12:10,166
like a lot of people,

796
01:12:10,166 --> 01:12:11,333
you know, what's

797
01:12:11,333 --> 01:12:12,333
this is

798
01:12:12,333 --> 01:12:15,000
buggy on launch X, Y, Z.

799
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:15,833
You know, we're

800
01:12:15,833 --> 01:12:17,000
spending too much here.

801
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:18,083
How did this happen? Why?

802
01:12:18,083 --> 01:12:18,750
They're not financial

803
01:12:18,750 --> 01:12:19,583
controls in place.

804
01:12:19,583 --> 01:12:21,708
Like as a company scales

805
01:12:21,708 --> 01:12:22,166
you just

806
01:12:22,166 --> 01:12:23,708
you still have those moments

807
01:12:23,708 --> 01:12:25,833
and like,

808
01:12:25,833 --> 01:12:26,875
I'm working on this,

809
01:12:26,875 --> 01:12:27,875
but I have a tendency

810
01:12:27,875 --> 01:12:29,125
probably to be like

811
01:12:29,125 --> 01:12:30,708
really reactive.

812
01:12:30,708 --> 01:12:32,458
Honestly,

813
01:12:32,458 --> 01:12:33,625
you have to manage that.

814
01:12:33,625 --> 01:12:34,208
Like,

815
01:12:34,208 --> 01:12:35,000
you have to control

816
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:35,875
your impulse there.

817
01:12:35,875 --> 01:12:37,083
But this is how I am,

818
01:12:37,083 --> 01:12:38,750
you know, I think you mean.

819
01:12:38,750 --> 01:12:39,458
So you see,

820
01:12:39,458 --> 01:12:40,166
something comes up

821
01:12:40,166 --> 01:12:41,750
and you just want to dig in

822
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:42,500
and fix it.

823
01:12:42,500 --> 01:12:43,291
I'll take care of this.

824
01:12:43,291 --> 01:12:45,125
I'll say 100% honest.

825
01:12:45,125 --> 01:12:46,041
Yeah, yeah,

826
01:12:46,041 --> 01:12:47,041
it's good in a way.

827
01:12:47,041 --> 01:12:47,750
Like you have to

828
01:12:47,750 --> 01:12:49,916
be like that. But sometimes,

829
01:12:51,083 --> 01:12:52,208
anyway, sometimes

830
01:12:52,208 --> 01:12:53,000
when you do that,

831
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:54,416
you probably rob people

832
01:12:54,416 --> 01:12:55,583
of being able to do that

833
01:12:55,583 --> 01:12:57,041
and they'll work, you know?

834
01:12:57,041 --> 01:12:58,333
right.

835
01:12:58,333 --> 01:12:58,791
But yeah,

836
01:12:58,791 --> 01:12:59,833
there are always moments,

837
01:12:59,833 --> 01:13:01,041
I mean,

838
01:13:01,041 --> 01:13:02,666
I mean, I remember,

839
01:13:02,666 --> 01:13:04,041
I remember one time

840
01:13:04,041 --> 01:13:06,125
and the journey

841
01:13:06,125 --> 01:13:06,500
is like

842
01:13:06,500 --> 01:13:07,666
maybe year two or year

843
01:13:07,666 --> 01:13:10,666
three of the company, like

844
01:13:10,750 --> 01:13:12,083
we had like

845
01:13:12,083 --> 01:13:13,333
20 K in the bank

846
01:13:13,333 --> 01:13:14,875
or something, maybe,

847
01:13:14,875 --> 01:13:16,208
maybe less actually.

848
01:13:16,208 --> 01:13:19,541
And but we had outstanding

849
01:13:20,208 --> 01:13:22,708
receivable bills of like 70.

850
01:13:22,708 --> 01:13:23,166
Right.

851
01:13:23,166 --> 01:13:24,791
And so

852
01:13:24,791 --> 01:13:26,541
then we also had

853
01:13:26,541 --> 01:13:28,375
outstanding payables

854
01:13:28,375 --> 01:13:31,208
of like 50 or something.

855
01:13:31,208 --> 01:13:32,083
So like right.

856
01:13:32,083 --> 01:13:33,708
How do you manage.

857
01:13:33,708 --> 01:13:35,000
You may have some money

858
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:35,750
coming in.

859
01:13:35,750 --> 01:13:36,583
You have some money

860
01:13:36,583 --> 01:13:37,750
going out.

861
01:13:37,750 --> 01:13:39,583
You have very little cash.

862
01:13:39,583 --> 01:13:40,458
You have to make your

863
01:13:40,458 --> 01:13:41,875
internal payroll.

864
01:13:41,875 --> 01:13:43,666
And I'm pretty sure

865
01:13:43,666 --> 01:13:44,750
we we pull down

866
01:13:44,750 --> 01:13:46,250
like a couple like

867
01:13:46,250 --> 01:13:48,166
like basically users

868
01:13:48,166 --> 01:13:49,958
interest rate loans

869
01:13:49,958 --> 01:13:52,958
and, you know, just like 20%.

870
01:13:53,416 --> 01:13:55,166
Right? Right. Yeah.

871
01:13:55,166 --> 01:13:56,333
So, you know,

872
01:13:56,333 --> 01:13:57,125
I just need a month.

873
01:13:57,125 --> 01:13:58,333
I just need two months

874
01:13:58,333 --> 01:13:59,333
to like. Yeah.

875
01:13:59,333 --> 01:14:00,583
So many of those moments,

876
01:14:00,583 --> 01:14:01,041
you know,

877
01:14:01,041 --> 01:14:01,708
but that one

878
01:14:01,708 --> 01:14:02,625
moment in particular was like

879
01:14:02,625 --> 01:14:04,708
pretty pretty nerve wracking.

880
01:14:04,708 --> 01:14:06,625
But we've had, you know,

881
01:14:06,625 --> 01:14:08,583
we've had moments like that

882
01:14:08,583 --> 01:14:09,250
through the years.

883
01:14:09,250 --> 01:14:11,375
Now as the business matures,

884
01:14:11,375 --> 01:14:13,041
like one thing

885
01:14:13,041 --> 01:14:14,541
that I've learned is like,

886
01:14:14,541 --> 01:14:16,000
if you have a track record

887
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:17,541
of like strong and stable

888
01:14:17,541 --> 01:14:19,250
business performance,

889
01:14:19,250 --> 01:14:22,250
like banks, investment firms,

890
01:14:22,250 --> 01:14:23,250
VCs like,

891
01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:24,333
they'll give you money

892
01:14:24,333 --> 01:14:25,166
to execute

893
01:14:25,166 --> 01:14:26,291
as long as you have, like,

894
01:14:26,291 --> 01:14:27,291
proved your mettle

895
01:14:27,291 --> 01:14:28,458
and and your ability

896
01:14:28,458 --> 01:14:30,208
to, like, maneuver.

897
01:14:30,208 --> 01:14:31,958
Thankfully those concerns

898
01:14:31,958 --> 01:14:33,416
as our company has scaled

899
01:14:33,416 --> 01:14:35,041
like like

900
01:14:35,041 --> 01:14:36,416
if you got a good business,

901
01:14:36,416 --> 01:14:37,541
you always have access

902
01:14:37,541 --> 01:14:38,125
to capital.

903
01:14:38,125 --> 01:14:38,666
Now, you may not

904
01:14:38,666 --> 01:14:40,083
like the terms,

905
01:14:40,083 --> 01:14:40,708
but yeah,

906
01:14:40,708 --> 01:14:42,375
like the capital access

907
01:14:42,375 --> 01:14:43,375
to be able to invest

908
01:14:43,375 --> 01:14:44,750
in the company

909
01:14:44,750 --> 01:14:45,458
that stops

910
01:14:45,458 --> 01:14:47,083
being a concern over time.

911
01:14:47,083 --> 01:14:49,166
over time in the early days,

912
01:14:49,166 --> 01:14:49,416
as you're

913
01:14:49,416 --> 01:14:51,416
proving out the business

914
01:14:51,416 --> 01:14:53,000
model, that's tricky.

915
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:53,541
And you just got

916
01:14:53,541 --> 01:14:54,416
to be scrappy,

917
01:14:54,416 --> 01:14:54,958
you know, pulled

918
01:14:54,958 --> 01:14:56,000
that part of cards,

919
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:57,500
that whole shit.

920
01:14:57,500 --> 01:14:58,583
Yeah. So, yeah.

921
01:14:58,583 --> 01:15:00,750
So you pay this one off,

922
01:15:00,750 --> 01:15:01,625
and then this one ends up

923
01:15:01,625 --> 01:15:02,291
emailing you

924
01:15:02,291 --> 01:15:03,416
that you can get a zero.

925
01:15:03,416 --> 01:15:04,625
And then you take this one

926
01:15:04,625 --> 01:15:06,291
and then just move out here

927
01:15:06,291 --> 01:15:07,416
and then like it's

928
01:15:07,416 --> 01:15:08,083
the shell game

929
01:15:08,083 --> 01:15:08,833
and I'm sure I'm

930
01:15:08,833 --> 01:15:10,208
sure the shell game

931
01:15:10,208 --> 01:15:11,875
happens at all levels.

932
01:15:11,875 --> 01:15:12,166
Right.

933
01:15:12,166 --> 01:15:12,750
Is I just want to

934
01:15:12,750 --> 01:15:13,666
take a little bit of lesson

935
01:15:13,666 --> 01:15:14,833
and move it to here

936
01:15:14,833 --> 01:15:15,833
and then like,

937
01:15:15,833 --> 01:15:16,083
you know,

938
01:15:16,083 --> 01:15:17,250
until you get the

939
01:15:17,250 --> 01:15:18,000
momentum going.

940
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:19,041
Yeah, we've done all that.

941
01:15:19,041 --> 01:15:20,541
All that's what we've done.

942
01:15:20,541 --> 01:15:21,291
I've done.

943
01:15:21,291 --> 01:15:22,375
You know, I've

944
01:15:22,375 --> 01:15:24,541
personally guaranteed

945
01:15:24,541 --> 01:15:26,000
I've personally guaranteed

946
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:26,750
more money

947
01:15:26,750 --> 01:15:29,750
than I ever had in cash.

948
01:15:29,875 --> 01:15:30,625
And I didn't have

949
01:15:30,625 --> 01:15:31,583
any other assets.

950
01:15:31,583 --> 01:15:33,250
So you just do that

951
01:15:33,250 --> 01:15:34,250
stuff to scale.

952
01:15:34,250 --> 01:15:35,333
That's just how it is,

953
01:15:35,333 --> 01:15:35,750
you know.

954
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:37,791
So and it's so funny.

955
01:15:37,791 --> 01:15:38,208
You know,

956
01:15:38,208 --> 01:15:39,000
we were talking

957
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:39,791
we were joking earlier

958
01:15:39,791 --> 01:15:40,916
about about founder mode

959
01:15:40,916 --> 01:15:41,791
and that idea.

960
01:15:41,791 --> 01:15:42,375
But I think there's

961
01:15:42,375 --> 01:15:44,208
something to the fact that

962
01:15:44,208 --> 01:15:45,291
if you just

963
01:15:45,291 --> 01:15:46,666
look at it on paper,

964
01:15:47,625 --> 01:15:49,916
someone, a CFO or a

965
01:15:49,916 --> 01:15:51,250
controller, might go

966
01:15:51,250 --> 01:15:53,958
this whole thing is, is not.

967
01:15:53,958 --> 01:15:54,583
No thank you.

968
01:15:54,583 --> 01:15:55,916
Like but still

969
01:15:55,916 --> 01:15:56,666
but in your head,

970
01:15:56,666 --> 01:15:57,291
you sort of you

971
01:15:57,291 --> 01:15:58,416
still you have that vision,

972
01:15:58,416 --> 01:15:58,708
you know where

973
01:15:58,708 --> 01:15:59,291
it's going to go.

974
01:15:59,291 --> 01:16:00,416
You sort of see that roadmap.

975
01:16:00,416 --> 01:16:01,458
You know where you're going

976
01:16:01,458 --> 01:16:03,041
and you don't.

977
01:16:03,041 --> 01:16:04,333
Those things

978
01:16:04,333 --> 01:16:04,958
where it's like

979
01:16:04,958 --> 01:16:06,166
you're guaranteeing more

980
01:16:06,166 --> 01:16:09,166
than you have and is is just

981
01:16:09,375 --> 01:16:11,000
sort of little speed bumps

982
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:12,833
on, on the road versus

983
01:16:12,833 --> 01:16:13,625
if you were to make

984
01:16:13,625 --> 01:16:15,083
logical decisions

985
01:16:15,083 --> 01:16:16,583
on every single one of those,

986
01:16:16,583 --> 01:16:17,041
then it probably

987
01:16:17,041 --> 01:16:17,833
would have been like,

988
01:16:17,833 --> 01:16:18,666
you should shut it down.

989
01:16:18,666 --> 01:16:19,041
Yeah.

990
01:16:19,041 --> 01:16:20,000
And go work

991
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:21,041
at a restaurant or, you know.

992
01:16:21,041 --> 01:16:21,208
Yeah.

993
01:16:21,208 --> 01:16:22,791
I mean, what but like,

994
01:16:22,791 --> 01:16:23,250
I don't know,

995
01:16:23,250 --> 01:16:24,375
what is logic

996
01:16:24,375 --> 01:16:26,333
like all new businesses

997
01:16:26,333 --> 01:16:27,708
are basically conditioned

998
01:16:27,708 --> 01:16:29,416
to fail the success rate

999
01:16:29,416 --> 01:16:30,416
is very low.

1000
01:16:30,416 --> 01:16:31,416
Like if you just look

1001
01:16:31,416 --> 01:16:32,833
at the numbers of like

1002
01:16:32,833 --> 01:16:34,041
how many you companies

1003
01:16:34,041 --> 01:16:35,083
succeed

1004
01:16:35,083 --> 01:16:36,291
probabilistically

1005
01:16:36,291 --> 01:16:36,958
it's oriented

1006
01:16:36,958 --> 01:16:37,791
towards failure.

1007
01:16:37,791 --> 01:16:39,833
So if you're just data driven

1008
01:16:39,833 --> 01:16:40,791
and you're approach

1009
01:16:40,791 --> 01:16:41,916
for making decisions

1010
01:16:41,916 --> 01:16:43,000
at an early company,

1011
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:45,291
like at the macro level,

1012
01:16:45,291 --> 01:16:46,958
you will reason yourself into

1013
01:16:46,958 --> 01:16:48,291
never starting

1014
01:16:48,291 --> 01:16:49,000
you just well,

1015
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:50,916
because probabilistically

1016
01:16:50,916 --> 01:16:52,041
it's not going to turn out

1017
01:16:52,041 --> 01:16:52,333
well.

1018
01:16:52,333 --> 01:16:53,916
But like

1019
01:16:53,916 --> 01:16:55,375
part of the experience

1020
01:16:55,375 --> 01:16:56,666
of being an entrepreneur,

1021
01:16:56,666 --> 01:16:57,291
at least in

1022
01:16:57,291 --> 01:16:59,250
my experience, is like

1023
01:16:59,250 --> 01:17:00,708
you have to bend

1024
01:17:00,708 --> 01:17:03,083
that likelihood curve, right?

1025
01:17:03,083 --> 01:17:03,416
That's

1026
01:17:03,416 --> 01:17:04,083
what you're trying to do

1027
01:17:04,083 --> 01:17:04,833
every day

1028
01:17:04,833 --> 01:17:06,250
by making good decisions

1029
01:17:06,250 --> 01:17:07,416
every day.

1030
01:17:07,416 --> 01:17:08,333
And, you know,

1031
01:17:08,333 --> 01:17:09,666
you wake up ten years later

1032
01:17:09,666 --> 01:17:10,750
or five years later,

1033
01:17:10,750 --> 01:17:11,833
you know, or two years

1034
01:17:11,833 --> 01:17:12,833
later, like,

1035
01:17:12,833 --> 01:17:14,166
and you're like, okay, cool.

1036
01:17:14,166 --> 01:17:14,666
Like we're on the

1037
01:17:14,666 --> 01:17:16,083
right trajectory for now,

1038
01:17:16,083 --> 01:17:17,458
but markets change.

1039
01:17:17,458 --> 01:17:19,541
Like they evolve.

1040
01:17:19,541 --> 01:17:20,291
So like what

1041
01:17:20,291 --> 01:17:21,291
your strategy is going in

1042
01:17:21,291 --> 01:17:22,250
that year may be different.

1043
01:17:22,250 --> 01:17:23,000
You got to reinvent

1044
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:23,708
like all that stuff.

1045
01:17:23,708 --> 01:17:24,166
That's true.

1046
01:17:24,166 --> 01:17:25,916
So yeah. Yeah.

1047
01:17:25,916 --> 01:17:27,291
I'll tell you a funny story.

1048
01:17:27,291 --> 01:17:29,208
I once hired a CFO, hired

1049
01:17:29,208 --> 01:17:30,708
a CFO, big name guy,

1050
01:17:30,708 --> 01:17:32,000
and he was recommended

1051
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:33,958
by, like, one of our staff.

1052
01:17:33,958 --> 01:17:35,083
Cool guy.

1053
01:17:35,083 --> 01:17:37,166
But I was like, okay,

1054
01:17:37,166 --> 01:17:39,166
we hired this big boy CFO.

1055
01:17:39,166 --> 01:17:40,666
He's making a lot of money.

1056
01:17:40,666 --> 01:17:41,666
He's going to make sure

1057
01:17:41,666 --> 01:17:43,125
that we don't fuck up

1058
01:17:43,125 --> 01:17:44,333
and, like, run out of money.

1059
01:17:44,333 --> 01:17:44,666
I'm like,

1060
01:17:44,666 --> 01:17:45,333
that's that's

1061
01:17:45,333 --> 01:17:46,000
job number

1062
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:47,291
one of a CFO is like,

1063
01:17:47,291 --> 01:17:49,375
I stare at the cash balance.

1064
01:17:49,375 --> 01:17:50,000
I make sure

1065
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:51,958
all my outflows are good,

1066
01:17:51,958 --> 01:17:53,458
all the inflows are good.

1067
01:17:53,458 --> 01:17:54,125
I make sure

1068
01:17:54,125 --> 01:17:55,250
my options are good.

1069
01:17:55,250 --> 01:17:56,125
As a company,

1070
01:17:56,125 --> 01:17:57,125
you do all the things

1071
01:17:57,125 --> 01:17:58,083
and you tell me,

1072
01:17:58,083 --> 01:17:59,416
is it this or is it this?

1073
01:17:59,416 --> 01:18:00,250
That's all I want to know.

1074
01:18:00,250 --> 01:18:02,000
Is it this or this?

1075
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:02,583
And like

1076
01:18:02,583 --> 01:18:03,250
and it's funny,

1077
01:18:03,250 --> 01:18:04,750
like I was

1078
01:18:04,750 --> 01:18:05,333
at the time,

1079
01:18:05,333 --> 01:18:07,166
I was like living in New York

1080
01:18:07,166 --> 01:18:07,958
and like,

1081
01:18:07,958 --> 01:18:08,291
you know,

1082
01:18:08,291 --> 01:18:09,416
the team was basically

1083
01:18:09,416 --> 01:18:11,458
still distributed and,

1084
01:18:12,958 --> 01:18:13,875
you know, so

1085
01:18:13,875 --> 01:18:14,333
but I

1086
01:18:14,333 --> 01:18:14,541
was a

1087
01:18:14,541 --> 01:18:15,291
little bit disconnected,

1088
01:18:15,291 --> 01:18:16,333
I think from like the,

1089
01:18:16,333 --> 01:18:18,416
the daily goings on.

1090
01:18:18,416 --> 01:18:20,333
And, you know, my,

1091
01:18:20,333 --> 01:18:21,291
one of my business partners

1092
01:18:21,291 --> 01:18:22,791
calls me, it's like, hey,

1093
01:18:22,791 --> 01:18:26,916
like like X, Y and Z we have

1094
01:18:26,916 --> 01:18:27,625
I don't even remember

1095
01:18:27,625 --> 01:18:28,541
what the issue was,

1096
01:18:28,541 --> 01:18:28,916
but he

1097
01:18:28,916 --> 01:18:29,541
I think he told me

1098
01:18:29,541 --> 01:18:30,416
our cash balance

1099
01:18:30,416 --> 01:18:31,000
and like what

1100
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:32,541
we were spending that month.

1101
01:18:32,541 --> 01:18:33,000
And he's like,

1102
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:34,000
I'm kind of concerned.

1103
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:35,583
And I'm like, wait, what?

1104
01:18:35,583 --> 01:18:35,791
Like,

1105
01:18:35,791 --> 01:18:36,833
why don't you call this

1106
01:18:36,833 --> 01:18:38,166
dude and like, tell him this?

1107
01:18:38,166 --> 01:18:39,625
Like, does he know?

1108
01:18:39,625 --> 01:18:40,125
All right, well,

1109
01:18:40,125 --> 01:18:41,041
I tried to talk to him,

1110
01:18:41,041 --> 01:18:41,750
but he doesn't seem to be

1111
01:18:41,750 --> 01:18:42,833
doing anything about it.

1112
01:18:42,833 --> 01:18:44,333
And I'm like, okay,

1113
01:18:44,333 --> 01:18:46,000
so we did like a meeting

1114
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:46,750
and I was like, bro, like,

1115
01:18:46,750 --> 01:18:47,708
what is going on?

1116
01:18:47,708 --> 01:18:47,833
Like,

1117
01:18:47,833 --> 01:18:48,458
you're not looking

1118
01:18:48,458 --> 01:18:49,541
at this stuff.

1119
01:18:49,541 --> 01:18:49,875
Yeah.

1120
01:18:49,875 --> 01:18:50,875
And he's like, oh, like,

1121
01:18:50,875 --> 01:18:52,000
I think it'll be fine.

1122
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:52,958
And I'm like, yeah,

1123
01:18:52,958 --> 01:18:54,333
definitely not. So

1124
01:18:55,708 --> 01:18:56,625
we, you know.

1125
01:18:56,625 --> 01:18:57,625
So needless to say,

1126
01:18:57,625 --> 01:18:58,875
we made some adjustments.

1127
01:18:58,875 --> 01:19:01,625
But,

1128
01:19:01,625 --> 01:19:03,125
even if you bring on a CFO,

1129
01:19:03,125 --> 01:19:04,791
that stuff doesn't go away.

1130
01:19:04,791 --> 01:19:06,708
Like as a, as entrepreneur,

1131
01:19:06,708 --> 01:19:07,833
like you're gonna

1132
01:19:07,833 --> 01:19:08,333
you're going to know

1133
01:19:08,333 --> 01:19:09,416
the context the best

1134
01:19:09,416 --> 01:19:10,375
for what type of risk

1135
01:19:10,375 --> 01:19:10,916
you can take

1136
01:19:10,916 --> 01:19:12,125
that makes sense.

1137
01:19:12,125 --> 01:19:12,583
You know.

1138
01:19:12,583 --> 01:19:13,375
Yeah. That's my belief.

1139
01:19:13,375 --> 01:19:15,583
So all those equations

1140
01:19:15,583 --> 01:19:16,000
that you do

1141
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:17,375
in your head all the time,

1142
01:19:17,375 --> 01:19:19,833
what is the

1143
01:19:19,833 --> 01:19:22,833
does the ten year ago to,

1144
01:19:25,166 --> 01:19:25,958
Like,

1145
01:19:25,958 --> 01:19:27,083
could you see where

1146
01:19:27,083 --> 01:19:27,916
you're at now?

1147
01:19:27,916 --> 01:19:28,875
Like, is it one of those

1148
01:19:28,875 --> 01:19:29,291
that you would

1149
01:19:29,291 --> 01:19:30,416
imagine yourself and,

1150
01:19:30,416 --> 01:19:31,666
and what you're doing now

1151
01:19:31,666 --> 01:19:32,875
from a CEO perspective

1152
01:19:32,875 --> 01:19:33,500
and because obviously

1153
01:19:33,500 --> 01:19:34,583
the ten year ago

1154
01:19:34,583 --> 01:19:36,375
version was not

1155
01:19:36,375 --> 01:19:38,000
CEO qualified. Yeah.

1156
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:39,166
And so like getting

1157
01:19:39,166 --> 01:19:39,666
to the place

1158
01:19:39,666 --> 01:19:40,750
you're at like,

1159
01:19:40,750 --> 01:19:42,333
you know, what would

1160
01:19:42,333 --> 01:19:44,000
what would today

1161
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:45,166
tell the ten year

1162
01:19:45,166 --> 01:19:47,083
ago version of you?

1163
01:19:52,625 --> 01:19:54,125
Ten, ten

1164
01:19:54,125 --> 01:19:54,708
years ago,

1165
01:19:54,708 --> 01:19:56,041
I think, like,

1166
01:19:56,041 --> 01:19:58,833
I had no expectations of,

1167
01:19:58,833 --> 01:19:59,625
like, what

1168
01:19:59,625 --> 01:20:00,583
I would be doing

1169
01:20:00,583 --> 01:20:02,000
in ten years.

1170
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:02,416
I didn't

1171
01:20:02,416 --> 01:20:03,625
I didn't really know.

1172
01:20:03,625 --> 01:20:06,500
and I think,

1173
01:20:06,500 --> 01:20:07,416
you know,

1174
01:20:07,416 --> 01:20:08,875
I would probably be proud of,

1175
01:20:08,875 --> 01:20:10,000
like, what we've built,

1176
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:11,000
like, as a team,

1177
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:12,416
you know, ten years later,

1178
01:20:12,416 --> 01:20:14,000
like, pretty proud of, like,

1179
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:14,875
you know, what we've done

1180
01:20:14,875 --> 01:20:17,875
for companies and developers?

1181
01:20:19,208 --> 01:20:20,958
but our CTO, by the way,

1182
01:20:20,958 --> 01:20:23,958
sorry, our CTO, by the way,

1183
01:20:24,625 --> 01:20:27,625
first interview with Gun.

1184
01:20:27,708 --> 01:20:28,250
All done.

1185
01:20:28,250 --> 01:20:28,708
Awesome.

1186
01:20:28,708 --> 01:20:30,333
And and Martina has,

1187
01:20:30,333 --> 01:20:31,541
has built an elegant

1188
01:20:31,541 --> 01:20:32,208
machine now.

1189
01:20:32,208 --> 01:20:33,375
So I also think

1190
01:20:33,375 --> 01:20:33,916
thank you for that.

1191
01:20:33,916 --> 01:20:35,333
Tell tell the ten year

1192
01:20:35,333 --> 01:20:37,291
ten year ago version.

1193
01:20:37,291 --> 01:20:38,041
Yeah I will

1194
01:20:38,041 --> 01:20:39,083
thank you that that

1195
01:20:39,083 --> 01:20:40,000
oh hearing that

1196
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:41,375
because like you know

1197
01:20:41,375 --> 01:20:42,083
one of the,

1198
01:20:42,083 --> 01:20:42,791
one of the

1199
01:20:42,791 --> 01:20:43,916
like reasons why we started

1200
01:20:43,916 --> 01:20:45,333
the company is like

1201
01:20:45,333 --> 01:20:46,666
I didn't grow up

1202
01:20:46,666 --> 01:20:46,916
with like

1203
01:20:46,916 --> 01:20:47,416
a lot of

1204
01:20:47,416 --> 01:20:48,708
economic opportunity.

1205
01:20:48,708 --> 01:20:49,583
So it was

1206
01:20:49,583 --> 01:20:50,416
cool to be able

1207
01:20:50,416 --> 01:20:51,583
to build a business

1208
01:20:51,583 --> 01:20:53,541
that like is fundamentally

1209
01:20:53,541 --> 01:20:55,250
predicated on creating

1210
01:20:55,250 --> 01:20:56,291
economic value

1211
01:20:56,291 --> 01:20:57,791
for like founders

1212
01:20:57,791 --> 01:20:58,833
people scaling companies,

1213
01:20:58,833 --> 01:20:59,666
and for a talent

1214
01:20:59,666 --> 01:21:01,166
that they're hiring

1215
01:21:01,166 --> 01:21:01,791
and working with

1216
01:21:01,791 --> 01:21:02,250
and scaling

1217
01:21:02,250 --> 01:21:03,041
their companies with.

1218
01:21:03,041 --> 01:21:04,833
So it's like we make money.

1219
01:21:04,833 --> 01:21:05,625
If people

1220
01:21:05,625 --> 01:21:06,750
make money together.

1221
01:21:06,750 --> 01:21:07,416
And that's

1222
01:21:07,416 --> 01:21:08,916
that's a really good feeling.

1223
01:21:08,916 --> 01:21:10,208
yeah. So

1224
01:21:11,458 --> 01:21:12,208
yeah, I don't know.

1225
01:21:12,208 --> 01:21:14,333
I mean, I it's funny, like,

1226
01:21:14,333 --> 01:21:15,625
I actually

1227
01:21:15,625 --> 01:21:16,583
I feel like CEO

1228
01:21:16,583 --> 01:21:17,875
is just a role that I play

1229
01:21:17,875 --> 01:21:19,708
for like half my day.

1230
01:21:19,708 --> 01:21:20,750
You know, I don't

1231
01:21:20,750 --> 01:21:21,291
that's not like

1232
01:21:21,291 --> 01:21:22,583
a big part of my identity.

1233
01:21:22,583 --> 01:21:24,083
Like being successful

1234
01:21:24,083 --> 01:21:25,958
and doing my best every day.

1235
01:21:25,958 --> 01:21:27,083
That's important to me.

1236
01:21:27,083 --> 01:21:28,083
But like,

1237
01:21:28,083 --> 01:21:28,416
to me,

1238
01:21:28,416 --> 01:21:31,416
CEO is just like a job title,

1239
01:21:31,500 --> 01:21:32,666
you know?

1240
01:21:32,666 --> 01:21:33,166
that's it.

1241
01:21:33,166 --> 01:21:33,458
I don't

1242
01:21:33,458 --> 01:21:34,291
I don't think too much

1243
01:21:34,291 --> 01:21:35,416
about it, honestly.

1244
01:21:35,416 --> 01:21:35,666
Yeah.

1245
01:21:35,666 --> 01:21:38,625
so yeah, I look at it

1246
01:21:38,625 --> 01:21:38,875
like I'm

1247
01:21:38,875 --> 01:21:39,416
the company's

1248
01:21:39,416 --> 01:21:40,541
chief evangelist.

1249
01:21:40,541 --> 01:21:41,666
You know, I try to.

1250
01:21:41,666 --> 01:21:43,750
Yeah. That's it. So. Yeah.

1251
01:21:43,750 --> 01:21:44,333
And it's funny

1252
01:21:44,333 --> 01:21:45,625
if you, if you take we

1253
01:21:45,625 --> 01:21:46,208
we were talking

1254
01:21:46,208 --> 01:21:47,166
back to the founder mode

1255
01:21:47,166 --> 01:21:48,291
versus sort of manager mode.

1256
01:21:48,291 --> 01:21:48,541
If you,

1257
01:21:48,541 --> 01:21:49,416
if you think about it,

1258
01:21:49,416 --> 01:21:50,083
if you take away

1259
01:21:50,083 --> 01:21:51,375
all the titles

1260
01:21:51,375 --> 01:21:52,791
and all the hierarchy

1261
01:21:52,791 --> 01:21:53,458
and stuff like that, it's

1262
01:21:53,458 --> 01:21:54,333
really just

1263
01:21:54,333 --> 01:21:55,833
for a specific thing.

1264
01:21:55,833 --> 01:21:58,416
You have the most context

1265
01:21:58,416 --> 01:22:00,000
of anyone

1266
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:01,500
in this area

1267
01:22:01,500 --> 01:22:02,458
for this company.

1268
01:22:02,458 --> 01:22:03,625
So it's like, yeah,

1269
01:22:03,625 --> 01:22:04,375
if we're going to go,

1270
01:22:04,375 --> 01:22:04,958
if we're going to

1271
01:22:04,958 --> 01:22:06,083
make a decision,

1272
01:22:06,083 --> 01:22:07,375
I have the most context.

1273
01:22:07,375 --> 01:22:07,583
Here's

1274
01:22:07,583 --> 01:22:08,458
what we're going to do.

1275
01:22:08,458 --> 01:22:09,666
you know,

1276
01:22:09,666 --> 01:22:10,708
and so it's

1277
01:22:10,708 --> 01:22:11,750
interesting to sort of,

1278
01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:12,625
I think take away

1279
01:22:12,625 --> 01:22:13,666
sometimes all those

1280
01:22:13,666 --> 01:22:14,541
like how

1281
01:22:14,541 --> 01:22:15,625
we think about levels

1282
01:22:15,625 --> 01:22:16,458
and, and,

1283
01:22:16,458 --> 01:22:17,916
and, and career advancement

1284
01:22:17,916 --> 01:22:18,333
and all those,

1285
01:22:18,333 --> 01:22:18,916
especially from

1286
01:22:18,916 --> 01:22:20,500
an entrepreneur perspective,

1287
01:22:20,500 --> 01:22:23,125
that, you know, Mark,

1288
01:22:23,125 --> 01:22:24,166
when when he started

1289
01:22:24,166 --> 01:22:25,208
Facebook and Mark

1290
01:22:25,208 --> 01:22:26,041
and you know what I mean?

1291
01:22:26,041 --> 01:22:26,375
Like, it's

1292
01:22:26,375 --> 01:22:27,375
one of those that it's

1293
01:22:27,375 --> 01:22:28,916
just the most context,

1294
01:22:28,916 --> 01:22:32,708
and, and the mixture of to,

1295
01:22:32,750 --> 01:22:33,583
to your point around

1296
01:22:33,583 --> 01:22:34,208
sort of vision

1297
01:22:34,208 --> 01:22:35,750
and determination and,

1298
01:22:35,750 --> 01:22:36,625
and some of the other

1299
01:22:36,625 --> 01:22:37,416
pieces, but,

1300
01:22:37,416 --> 01:22:39,291
but getting away from,

1301
01:22:39,291 --> 01:22:39,958
from sort of

1302
01:22:39,958 --> 01:22:41,583
what a role should be,

1303
01:22:41,583 --> 01:22:42,875
and just growing into,

1304
01:22:42,875 --> 01:22:44,125
into what you become.

1305
01:22:44,125 --> 01:22:45,083
Yeah, totally.

1306
01:22:45,083 --> 01:22:46,833
I mean, I'm like different

1307
01:22:46,833 --> 01:22:49,125
skill sets for CEOs matter

1308
01:22:49,125 --> 01:22:50,000
at different parts

1309
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:50,791
of the journey.

1310
01:22:50,791 --> 01:22:51,583
Like, you know,

1311
01:22:51,583 --> 01:22:52,583
if you're a public company

1312
01:22:52,583 --> 01:22:53,416
CEO, like,

1313
01:22:53,416 --> 01:22:54,625
you have to be pretty good,

1314
01:22:54,625 --> 01:22:55,083
I think,

1315
01:22:55,083 --> 01:22:55,708
like managing

1316
01:22:55,708 --> 01:22:56,750
competing interests

1317
01:22:56,750 --> 01:22:57,958
and like

1318
01:22:57,958 --> 01:22:59,000
thinking strategically,

1319
01:22:59,000 --> 01:22:59,750
but performing

1320
01:22:59,750 --> 01:23:01,666
to quarterly expectations,

1321
01:23:01,666 --> 01:23:02,333
right?

1322
01:23:02,333 --> 01:23:03,458
As, as

1323
01:23:03,458 --> 01:23:04,416
as like private

1324
01:23:04,416 --> 01:23:05,583
companies, CEOs,

1325
01:23:05,583 --> 01:23:07,458
startups, CEOs,

1326
01:23:07,458 --> 01:23:09,083
we get the benefit of like

1327
01:23:10,041 --> 01:23:11,125
like we get to

1328
01:23:11,125 --> 01:23:12,708
invest in like a two year,

1329
01:23:12,708 --> 01:23:14,666
three year strategy. Right?

1330
01:23:14,666 --> 01:23:15,291
And so you can

1331
01:23:15,291 --> 01:23:16,875
tolerate the ups and downs.

1332
01:23:16,875 --> 01:23:17,500
And I don't have

1333
01:23:17,500 --> 01:23:18,375
to be political

1334
01:23:18,375 --> 01:23:19,250
with our investors.

1335
01:23:19,250 --> 01:23:20,333
I can be all right.

1336
01:23:20,333 --> 01:23:21,625
This is going shit.

1337
01:23:21,625 --> 01:23:22,958
This is going really well.

1338
01:23:22,958 --> 01:23:24,083
I'm excited about this.

1339
01:23:24,083 --> 01:23:26,125
I need more money over here.

1340
01:23:26,125 --> 01:23:27,333
Like we need to kill

1341
01:23:27,333 --> 01:23:28,458
this part of the work.

1342
01:23:28,458 --> 01:23:29,125
Like I can be

1343
01:23:29,125 --> 01:23:30,041
very straightforward.

1344
01:23:30,041 --> 01:23:30,666
And there, like,

1345
01:23:30,666 --> 01:23:31,875
it sounds good.

1346
01:23:31,875 --> 01:23:33,125
If you're a public company

1347
01:23:33,125 --> 01:23:34,375
CEO, like,

1348
01:23:34,375 --> 01:23:34,791
your board

1349
01:23:34,791 --> 01:23:35,875
can just vote you out

1350
01:23:35,875 --> 01:23:36,416
if, like,

1351
01:23:36,416 --> 01:23:37,125
they're not happy

1352
01:23:37,125 --> 01:23:38,250
with the worst performance

1353
01:23:38,250 --> 01:23:39,166
from multiple quarters

1354
01:23:39,166 --> 01:23:40,833
performance. Right? Right.

1355
01:23:40,833 --> 01:23:41,666
I do think that's

1356
01:23:41,666 --> 01:23:42,875
one of the privileges.

1357
01:23:42,875 --> 01:23:43,750
Like we're like,

1358
01:23:43,750 --> 01:23:44,333
as you say,

1359
01:23:44,333 --> 01:23:44,875
we get to have

1360
01:23:44,875 --> 01:23:45,708
a lot of context

1361
01:23:45,708 --> 01:23:47,250
and make decisions

1362
01:23:47,250 --> 01:23:48,291
about the company

1363
01:23:48,291 --> 01:23:48,916
and it's

1364
01:23:48,916 --> 01:23:50,041
it feels pretty good.

1365
01:23:50,041 --> 01:23:51,083
I'd say that

1366
01:23:51,083 --> 01:23:51,708
that's pretty

1367
01:23:51,708 --> 01:23:52,916
it's pretty dope.

1368
01:23:52,916 --> 01:23:55,916
nice jobs I like so so

1369
01:23:56,416 --> 01:23:58,583
so so coming to present day,

1370
01:23:58,583 --> 01:23:59,833
what is the next

1371
01:23:59,833 --> 01:24:00,500
to that point?

1372
01:24:00,500 --> 01:24:00,958
What's the next

1373
01:24:00,958 --> 01:24:02,000
2 to 3 years look like?

1374
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:02,416
Like what are

1375
01:24:02,416 --> 01:24:03,083
some of the things

1376
01:24:03,083 --> 01:24:03,833
that you're, you're

1377
01:24:03,833 --> 01:24:04,750
sort of pushing towards.

1378
01:24:04,750 --> 01:24:05,750
Yeah, I mean

1379
01:24:05,750 --> 01:24:07,458
I think from a, from a vision

1380
01:24:07,458 --> 01:24:09,583
standpoint, like,

1381
01:24:09,583 --> 01:24:10,125
at least this is

1382
01:24:10,125 --> 01:24:11,875
the way I see our space

1383
01:24:11,875 --> 01:24:12,291
and like,

1384
01:24:12,291 --> 01:24:13,041
maybe you can,

1385
01:24:13,041 --> 01:24:14,375
you can share

1386
01:24:14,375 --> 01:24:15,833
how your experience has been,

1387
01:24:15,833 --> 01:24:17,125
but it's like

1388
01:24:17,125 --> 01:24:18,375
we have built the company

1389
01:24:18,375 --> 01:24:20,000
basically as an agency first,

1390
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:21,250
then as a platform.

1391
01:24:21,250 --> 01:24:22,791
And so like we're

1392
01:24:22,791 --> 01:24:24,833
we're building into more

1393
01:24:24,833 --> 01:24:27,041
of a self-serve model.

1394
01:24:27,041 --> 01:24:27,750
And one of the things

1395
01:24:27,750 --> 01:24:29,041
that I notice about,

1396
01:24:29,041 --> 01:24:30,458
like when I go to conferences

1397
01:24:30,458 --> 01:24:30,833
and I meet

1398
01:24:30,833 --> 01:24:31,916
with different leaders

1399
01:24:31,916 --> 01:24:32,958
who are like,

1400
01:24:32,958 --> 01:24:33,291
you know,

1401
01:24:33,291 --> 01:24:36,083
hiring people in this market,

1402
01:24:36,083 --> 01:24:38,250
they are like, hey,

1403
01:24:38,250 --> 01:24:39,958
we want like we like your end

1404
01:24:39,958 --> 01:24:41,166
to end solution.

1405
01:24:41,166 --> 01:24:42,250
But I just want to talk

1406
01:24:42,250 --> 01:24:43,125
to some people.

1407
01:24:43,125 --> 01:24:43,458
I'm like,

1408
01:24:43,458 --> 01:24:44,583
I don't need you to do

1409
01:24:44,583 --> 01:24:46,250
like all this

1410
01:24:46,250 --> 01:24:48,166
a payments compliance.

1411
01:24:48,166 --> 01:24:48,875
I don't need that shit.

1412
01:24:48,875 --> 01:24:49,916
I just want to

1413
01:24:49,916 --> 01:24:50,916
meet some people.

1414
01:24:50,916 --> 01:24:51,625
Maybe I want you to

1415
01:24:51,625 --> 01:24:52,291
vet some of them,

1416
01:24:52,291 --> 01:24:53,333
maybe I don't.

1417
01:24:53,333 --> 01:24:54,916
I have 3 or 4 engineers.

1418
01:24:54,916 --> 01:24:55,958
That will be a part

1419
01:24:55,958 --> 01:24:57,458
of the interview process.

1420
01:24:57,458 --> 01:24:57,958
So I just say

1421
01:24:57,958 --> 01:24:59,583
applicants or,

1422
01:24:59,583 --> 01:25:01,958
hey, I want to hire somebody.

1423
01:25:01,958 --> 01:25:02,708
I need you guys

1424
01:25:02,708 --> 01:25:05,125
to help support cross border.

1425
01:25:05,125 --> 01:25:06,041
I need you to do

1426
01:25:06,041 --> 01:25:07,958
all the compliance for me.

1427
01:25:07,958 --> 01:25:09,083
And so thinking about

1428
01:25:09,083 --> 01:25:10,291
the business is a little bit

1429
01:25:10,291 --> 01:25:11,416
more modular.

1430
01:25:11,416 --> 01:25:12,166
And the next

1431
01:25:12,166 --> 01:25:13,375
arc of the company

1432
01:25:13,375 --> 01:25:14,000
is something

1433
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:15,166
that like we're working

1434
01:25:15,166 --> 01:25:16,250
through workshopping,

1435
01:25:16,250 --> 01:25:19,375
I would say, just so we can

1436
01:25:20,125 --> 01:25:21,291
we can support more

1437
01:25:21,291 --> 01:25:24,291
use cases, across

1438
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:27,291
like the hiring landscape

1439
01:25:27,291 --> 01:25:30,083
because H.R recruiting is a

1440
01:25:30,083 --> 01:25:30,708
is a very

1441
01:25:30,708 --> 01:25:32,208
interesting industry

1442
01:25:32,208 --> 01:25:33,666
to be like.

1443
01:25:33,666 --> 01:25:34,166
It is.

1444
01:25:34,166 --> 01:25:34,833
Yeah.

1445
01:25:34,833 --> 01:25:36,416
It's all relationship based.

1446
01:25:36,416 --> 01:25:37,291
There's like very little

1447
01:25:37,291 --> 01:25:38,875
competitive differentiation.

1448
01:25:38,875 --> 01:25:39,750
Right.

1449
01:25:39,750 --> 01:25:40,958
That's that's right

1450
01:25:40,958 --> 01:25:42,291
about recruiting.

1451
01:25:42,291 --> 01:25:44,250
because what we do

1452
01:25:44,250 --> 01:25:46,250
another recruiter can do,

1453
01:25:46,250 --> 01:25:48,500
if they have relationships

1454
01:25:48,500 --> 01:25:48,916
with our,

1455
01:25:48,916 --> 01:25:49,625
with our network,

1456
01:25:49,625 --> 01:25:50,333
I think the strength

1457
01:25:50,333 --> 01:25:50,958
of our business

1458
01:25:50,958 --> 01:25:52,583
is our network and our brand

1459
01:25:52,583 --> 01:25:53,541
and how much developers

1460
01:25:53,541 --> 01:25:54,500
like working with us

1461
01:25:54,500 --> 01:25:55,166
and companies

1462
01:25:55,166 --> 01:25:56,625
like, like y'all

1463
01:25:56,625 --> 01:25:58,958
enjoy working with us, but

1464
01:25:58,958 --> 01:26:00,166
trying to make the business

1465
01:26:00,166 --> 01:26:01,041
more modular

1466
01:26:01,041 --> 01:26:02,250
so we can

1467
01:26:02,250 --> 01:26:02,875
like so

1468
01:26:02,875 --> 01:26:04,791
as you guys scale, like,

1469
01:26:04,791 --> 01:26:05,583
you probably don't

1470
01:26:05,583 --> 01:26:06,916
need a full platform

1471
01:26:06,916 --> 01:26:08,625
and you probably just want

1472
01:26:08,625 --> 01:26:09,958
a couple of developers

1473
01:26:09,958 --> 01:26:10,708
to look at,

1474
01:26:10,708 --> 01:26:12,416
maybe decide to interview.

1475
01:26:12,416 --> 01:26:13,750
Or maybe you're like, hey,

1476
01:26:13,750 --> 01:26:14,250
I want to work

1477
01:26:14,250 --> 01:26:16,708
with a Latin American shop,

1478
01:26:16,708 --> 01:26:18,000
but I don't want to handle

1479
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:19,000
the compliance piece,

1480
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:19,916
or I want an audit

1481
01:26:19,916 --> 01:26:20,750
of the work they're doing.

1482
01:26:20,750 --> 01:26:21,791
We want to be a plug

1483
01:26:21,791 --> 01:26:22,500
in and support

1484
01:26:22,500 --> 01:26:23,416
that, basically.

1485
01:26:23,416 --> 01:26:24,625
So that's

1486
01:26:24,625 --> 01:26:25,416
what the next couple of years

1487
01:26:25,416 --> 01:26:26,666
looks like.

1488
01:26:26,666 --> 01:26:27,208
I think it's

1489
01:26:27,208 --> 01:26:28,000
I think it's great.

1490
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:29,875
And I've actually worked with

1491
01:26:29,875 --> 01:26:30,833
and for and partnered

1492
01:26:30,833 --> 01:26:32,041
with other like,

1493
01:26:32,041 --> 01:26:35,375
hiring and recruiting firms

1494
01:26:35,375 --> 01:26:36,791
and in past lives.

1495
01:26:36,791 --> 01:26:39,125
And so I, I know it

1496
01:26:39,125 --> 01:26:41,750
fairly well and it

1497
01:26:41,750 --> 01:26:43,833
I love the, the modular piece

1498
01:26:43,833 --> 01:26:45,208
because being able to also

1499
01:26:45,208 --> 01:26:46,083
there are times where

1500
01:26:46,083 --> 01:26:47,750
I just want to sort of search

1501
01:26:47,750 --> 01:26:48,625
and get an idea

1502
01:26:48,625 --> 01:26:49,500
of what things

1503
01:26:49,500 --> 01:26:50,208
are looking like.

1504
01:26:50,208 --> 01:26:53,000
And I may sort of like flag

1505
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:53,875
a couple of people and go,

1506
01:26:53,875 --> 01:26:55,500
this could be interesting.

1507
01:26:55,500 --> 01:26:56,708
but then there are

1508
01:26:56,708 --> 01:26:57,541
other periods

1509
01:26:57,541 --> 01:26:58,500
where, you know,

1510
01:26:58,500 --> 01:27:00,125
if we scale up

1511
01:27:00,125 --> 01:27:00,500
and there's a,

1512
01:27:00,500 --> 01:27:01,375
there's a big curve

1513
01:27:01,375 --> 01:27:02,208
and I need to add,

1514
01:27:02,208 --> 01:27:03,708
you know, get 4 or 5 people.

1515
01:27:03,708 --> 01:27:05,416
by the way, shout,

1516
01:27:05,416 --> 01:27:06,750
shout out to Carrie.

1517
01:27:06,750 --> 01:27:07,291
Amazing.

1518
01:27:07,291 --> 01:27:08,041
yeah,

1519
01:27:08,041 --> 01:27:09,916
I would totally slack

1520
01:27:09,916 --> 01:27:10,958
Carrie and be like,

1521
01:27:10,958 --> 01:27:12,291
I have a need.

1522
01:27:12,291 --> 01:27:13,291
I cannot write you

1523
01:27:13,291 --> 01:27:14,333
all the job descriptions,

1524
01:27:14,333 --> 01:27:15,958
but if I can just loom myself

1525
01:27:15,958 --> 01:27:17,583
talking for a minute, like,

1526
01:27:17,583 --> 01:27:17,916
and that's

1527
01:27:17,916 --> 01:27:19,125
that's literally what we've,

1528
01:27:19,125 --> 01:27:20,333
we've done a couple of times

1529
01:27:20,333 --> 01:27:24,375
and I think total with Gun,

1530
01:27:24,666 --> 01:27:25,791
I've had three interviews

1531
01:27:25,791 --> 01:27:26,666
with three people

1532
01:27:26,666 --> 01:27:27,916
and two of them we hired.

1533
01:27:27,916 --> 01:27:28,666
That's it.

1534
01:27:28,666 --> 01:27:29,250
And so

1535
01:27:29,250 --> 01:27:30,708
and so being able to

1536
01:27:30,708 --> 01:27:32,416
and I know that running

1537
01:27:32,416 --> 01:27:34,375
HR at larger firms

1538
01:27:34,375 --> 01:27:34,875
where I was,

1539
01:27:34,875 --> 01:27:36,083
I was in charge of operations

1540
01:27:36,083 --> 01:27:37,208
and hiring,

1541
01:27:37,208 --> 01:27:38,458
I would go through those.

1542
01:27:38,458 --> 01:27:38,916
It was a

1543
01:27:38,916 --> 01:27:40,166
it was a two month cycle,

1544
01:27:40,166 --> 01:27:40,666
having someone

1545
01:27:40,666 --> 01:27:41,416
come into the office.

1546
01:27:41,416 --> 01:27:42,500
And so nice to meet you.

1547
01:27:42,500 --> 01:27:43,375
Can I get you some water

1548
01:27:43,375 --> 01:27:43,750
and why don't you

1549
01:27:43,750 --> 01:27:44,333
sit down here,

1550
01:27:44,333 --> 01:27:45,416
whatever it is,

1551
01:27:45,416 --> 01:27:46,416
and to be able to sort of

1552
01:27:46,416 --> 01:27:48,375
get more into this like,

1553
01:27:48,375 --> 01:27:49,916
no, just

1554
01:27:49,916 --> 01:27:50,666
help me sort of

1555
01:27:50,666 --> 01:27:51,416
figure this out

1556
01:27:51,416 --> 01:27:52,791
or let me sort of

1557
01:27:52,791 --> 01:27:53,750
figure it out for a minute.

1558
01:27:53,750 --> 01:27:54,625
And to be able to flex

1559
01:27:54,625 --> 01:27:56,625
in that is, is is so great

1560
01:27:56,625 --> 01:27:58,583
because it's never just one

1561
01:27:58,583 --> 01:27:59,083
or the other.

1562
01:27:59,083 --> 01:28:00,083
there's,

1563
01:28:00,083 --> 01:28:00,583
there's always

1564
01:28:00,583 --> 01:28:01,750
different cycles.

1565
01:28:01,750 --> 01:28:03,041
And sometimes, like I said,

1566
01:28:03,041 --> 01:28:04,250
it may be like, I'm

1567
01:28:04,250 --> 01:28:04,666
going to send you

1568
01:28:04,666 --> 01:28:06,750
a video of what I need,

1569
01:28:06,750 --> 01:28:07,250
or I'm going to

1570
01:28:07,250 --> 01:28:08,625
just send you a big write up.

1571
01:28:08,625 --> 01:28:09,750
And if you can just help me

1572
01:28:09,750 --> 01:28:10,250
solve this,

1573
01:28:10,250 --> 01:28:10,958
that would be great.

1574
01:28:10,958 --> 01:28:11,958
And then other times

1575
01:28:11,958 --> 01:28:13,000
that, like, I want to,

1576
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:13,416
you know, I'm

1577
01:28:13,416 --> 01:28:14,125
looking for something

1578
01:28:14,125 --> 01:28:15,083
very specific

1579
01:28:15,083 --> 01:28:16,416
and I want to sort of pick

1580
01:28:16,416 --> 01:28:17,208
through it myself.

1581
01:28:17,208 --> 01:28:19,000
And so I like that

1582
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:19,916
and I like that approach.

1583
01:28:19,916 --> 01:28:21,000
That's awesome. Yeah.

1584
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:21,958
You mean like

1585
01:28:21,958 --> 01:28:22,750
even before

1586
01:28:22,750 --> 01:28:23,750
you look at people,

1587
01:28:23,750 --> 01:28:24,833
you may want to look at like

1588
01:28:24,833 --> 01:28:25,791
what's compensation

1589
01:28:25,791 --> 01:28:26,375
looking like.

1590
01:28:26,375 --> 01:28:26,958
Like how much do

1591
01:28:26,958 --> 01:28:27,750
I need to budget.

1592
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:28,708
And so

1593
01:28:28,708 --> 01:28:29,875
yeah, you know, we

1594
01:28:29,875 --> 01:28:31,000
we have a database

1595
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:32,500
of all of the compensation

1596
01:28:32,500 --> 01:28:34,125
of all everybody that's ever

1597
01:28:34,125 --> 01:28:34,791
gotten hired

1598
01:28:34,791 --> 01:28:35,791
across the world.

1599
01:28:35,791 --> 01:28:37,125
And so I'm

1600
01:28:37,125 --> 01:28:38,750
just exposing that to you

1601
01:28:38,750 --> 01:28:39,208
before

1602
01:28:39,208 --> 01:28:40,916
you're even ready to hire

1603
01:28:40,916 --> 01:28:41,500
like that

1604
01:28:41,500 --> 01:28:43,416
will help you size and budget

1605
01:28:43,416 --> 01:28:44,041
and then

1606
01:28:44,041 --> 01:28:45,250
see when you can time

1607
01:28:45,250 --> 01:28:45,958
certain things

1608
01:28:45,958 --> 01:28:47,875
before you even enter into

1609
01:28:47,875 --> 01:28:48,500
a hiring motion,

1610
01:28:48,500 --> 01:28:49,291
because that's costly.

1611
01:28:49,291 --> 01:28:50,666
That takes

1612
01:28:50,666 --> 01:28:52,166
time away from other stuff.

1613
01:28:52,166 --> 01:28:54,041
And so that's some of the.

1614
01:28:54,041 --> 01:28:55,041
Yeah, I mean, to your point,

1615
01:28:55,041 --> 01:28:55,666
that's some of the

1616
01:28:55,666 --> 01:28:56,333
thinking around

1617
01:28:56,333 --> 01:28:58,041
the modularity piece.

1618
01:28:58,041 --> 01:28:58,875
At least,

1619
01:28:58,875 --> 01:28:59,666
you know, the way we'll do it

1620
01:28:59,666 --> 01:29:00,625
is when we put together

1621
01:29:00,625 --> 01:29:01,791
our annual roadmap

1622
01:29:01,791 --> 01:29:02,958
every year,

1623
01:29:02,958 --> 01:29:04,166
we'll budget in roles

1624
01:29:04,166 --> 01:29:05,666
at certain times of the year.

1625
01:29:05,666 --> 01:29:06,375
Right.

1626
01:29:06,375 --> 01:29:08,083
So if you're layering

1627
01:29:08,083 --> 01:29:09,416
in a cost,

1628
01:29:09,416 --> 01:29:09,833
let's say

1629
01:29:09,833 --> 01:29:11,541
in April of the next year,

1630
01:29:11,541 --> 01:29:12,416
you want to know what

1631
01:29:12,416 --> 01:29:13,750
that ongoing cost is,

1632
01:29:13,750 --> 01:29:14,833
because you need to be able

1633
01:29:14,833 --> 01:29:15,458
to put that

1634
01:29:15,458 --> 01:29:16,375
in your financial plan.

1635
01:29:16,375 --> 01:29:17,708
Right. So, right.

1636
01:29:17,708 --> 01:29:19,958
yeah.

1637
01:29:19,958 --> 01:29:21,916
that's cool.

1638
01:29:21,916 --> 01:29:23,125
You guys would loom

1639
01:29:23,125 --> 01:29:24,166
like your Rex.

1640
01:29:24,166 --> 01:29:25,416
That's cool, that's awesome.

1641
01:29:25,416 --> 01:29:26,208
I don't know that.

1642
01:29:26,208 --> 01:29:27,625
Well, I, I,

1643
01:29:27,625 --> 01:29:28,791
I think in this,

1644
01:29:28,791 --> 01:29:29,625
you know, it's interesting,

1645
01:29:29,625 --> 01:29:31,208
this return back to office

1646
01:29:31,208 --> 01:29:31,666
kind of like

1647
01:29:31,666 --> 01:29:32,583
everyone needs like

1648
01:29:32,583 --> 01:29:33,375
the office.

1649
01:29:33,375 --> 01:29:34,083
I really think

1650
01:29:34,083 --> 01:29:34,625
it's one of those

1651
01:29:34,625 --> 01:29:36,541
that that we still have

1652
01:29:36,541 --> 01:29:37,833
a level of management

1653
01:29:37,833 --> 01:29:39,083
that is just used to like

1654
01:29:39,083 --> 01:29:39,708
seeing people

1655
01:29:39,708 --> 01:29:40,583
and having meetings

1656
01:29:40,583 --> 01:29:41,583
and talking and being like,

1657
01:29:41,583 --> 01:29:42,000
I know

1658
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:43,750
that things are working

1659
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:44,708
in the,

1660
01:29:44,708 --> 01:29:45,916
you know, with using

1661
01:29:45,916 --> 01:29:46,958
tools appropriately.

1662
01:29:46,958 --> 01:29:47,958
Thinking about slack,

1663
01:29:47,958 --> 01:29:48,708
I use slack

1664
01:29:48,708 --> 01:29:50,333
audio messages all the time.

1665
01:29:50,333 --> 01:29:50,625
Right.

1666
01:29:50,625 --> 01:29:51,333
I'll just like,

1667
01:29:51,333 --> 01:29:52,041
I'm in the car,

1668
01:29:52,041 --> 01:29:52,583
I'm on the go, I'm

1669
01:29:52,583 --> 01:29:53,125
picking up the kids

1670
01:29:53,125 --> 01:29:53,916
from school

1671
01:29:53,916 --> 01:29:55,166
and I'll record something.

1672
01:29:55,166 --> 01:29:56,125
I've done this for Carrie.

1673
01:29:56,125 --> 01:29:56,625
I she could

1674
01:29:56,625 --> 01:29:57,666
she can attest, I'll.

1675
01:29:57,666 --> 01:29:58,500
I'll just record

1676
01:29:58,500 --> 01:30:00,333
like a minute as I'm driving.

1677
01:30:00,333 --> 01:30:01,125
I'll hit it. I'll go.

1678
01:30:01,125 --> 01:30:01,750
Hey, so

1679
01:30:01,750 --> 01:30:02,541
this is what I was thinking.

1680
01:30:02,541 --> 01:30:03,500
If we could look for

1681
01:30:03,500 --> 01:30:04,625
somebody like this

1682
01:30:04,625 --> 01:30:05,750
and then this.

1683
01:30:05,750 --> 01:30:06,833
But I want to make sure

1684
01:30:06,833 --> 01:30:07,791
that this and this

1685
01:30:07,791 --> 01:30:08,333
and send it

1686
01:30:08,333 --> 01:30:09,750
and slack transcribes it,

1687
01:30:09,750 --> 01:30:10,708
and then she can basically

1688
01:30:10,708 --> 01:30:12,041
just read it and goes, cool,

1689
01:30:12,041 --> 01:30:12,416
sounds good.

1690
01:30:12,416 --> 01:30:13,916
I'll look for it tomorrow.

1691
01:30:13,916 --> 01:30:14,791
And then she sends over

1692
01:30:14,791 --> 01:30:15,833
a few things like, it's

1693
01:30:15,833 --> 01:30:17,125
so different than I think

1694
01:30:17,125 --> 01:30:17,958
traditionally,

1695
01:30:17,958 --> 01:30:18,916
especially even

1696
01:30:18,916 --> 01:30:20,041
five years ago or more,

1697
01:30:20,041 --> 01:30:21,375
where it was very

1698
01:30:21,375 --> 01:30:22,250
I had an email

1699
01:30:22,250 --> 01:30:23,583
from a recruiter.

1700
01:30:23,583 --> 01:30:24,625
Do you have time to meet

1701
01:30:24,625 --> 01:30:25,041
this week?

1702
01:30:25,041 --> 01:30:26,083
I'd love to meet with you.

1703
01:30:26,083 --> 01:30:26,708
And then I'm going

1704
01:30:26,708 --> 01:30:27,166
to send over

1705
01:30:27,166 --> 01:30:29,333
a stack of resumes.

1706
01:30:29,333 --> 01:30:29,708
If you can,

1707
01:30:29,708 --> 01:30:30,791
please review those.

1708
01:30:30,791 --> 01:30:31,208
You know what I mean?

1709
01:30:31,208 --> 01:30:32,250
It was just this long

1710
01:30:32,250 --> 01:30:33,500
sort of cycle

1711
01:30:33,500 --> 01:30:34,166
to get to where

1712
01:30:34,166 --> 01:30:35,000
I wanted to get to,

1713
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:36,833
which was just like,

1714
01:30:36,833 --> 01:30:37,916
send a couple of people over

1715
01:30:37,916 --> 01:30:39,666
and let us talk like this.

1716
01:30:39,666 --> 01:30:40,375
And this is how

1717
01:30:40,375 --> 01:30:41,333
I ended up doing it anyway,

1718
01:30:41,333 --> 01:30:42,250
because from a resume

1719
01:30:42,250 --> 01:30:43,250
perspective,

1720
01:30:43,250 --> 01:30:44,083
you know, things

1721
01:30:44,083 --> 01:30:45,458
kind of blur sometimes,

1722
01:30:45,458 --> 01:30:47,000
but you really start to,

1723
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:48,333
to meet someone,

1724
01:30:48,333 --> 01:30:50,125
you know, over video chat

1725
01:30:50,125 --> 01:30:51,416
or in person, and,

1726
01:30:51,416 --> 01:30:52,833
and it goes much quicker,

1727
01:30:52,833 --> 01:30:54,041
but basically compressing

1728
01:30:54,041 --> 01:30:54,708
that time

1729
01:30:54,708 --> 01:30:55,833
of all the formalities

1730
01:30:55,833 --> 01:30:56,666
that we do as

1731
01:30:56,666 --> 01:30:58,000
a, you know, as a large

1732
01:30:58,000 --> 01:30:59,833
recruiting firm versus

1733
01:30:59,833 --> 01:31:00,625
let's just sort of use

1734
01:31:00,625 --> 01:31:01,250
the tools that we have.

1735
01:31:01,250 --> 01:31:02,333
Now, let's cut to the chase,

1736
01:31:02,333 --> 01:31:03,375
let's get right down to it,

1737
01:31:03,375 --> 01:31:04,166
and I'll give you that.

1738
01:31:04,166 --> 01:31:05,125
And then

1739
01:31:05,125 --> 01:31:05,750
and it saves

1740
01:31:05,750 --> 01:31:06,916
from a company perspective,

1741
01:31:06,916 --> 01:31:07,458
it saves us

1742
01:31:07,458 --> 01:31:09,416
both overhead hours. Yeah.

1743
01:31:09,416 --> 01:31:11,000
of of all

1744
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:12,083
the sort of formalities

1745
01:31:12,083 --> 01:31:12,708
that go into things

1746
01:31:12,708 --> 01:31:13,375
sometimes. Yeah.

1747
01:31:13,375 --> 01:31:14,500
A time, you know,

1748
01:31:14,500 --> 01:31:15,708
the cool thing is actually,

1749
01:31:15,708 --> 01:31:16,666
I'm pretty excited

1750
01:31:16,666 --> 01:31:17,208
about this

1751
01:31:17,208 --> 01:31:18,250
last scheduling

1752
01:31:18,250 --> 01:31:20,750
in the app, like tomorrow.

1753
01:31:20,750 --> 01:31:21,958
So if you need to schedule

1754
01:31:21,958 --> 01:31:22,791
your interviews,

1755
01:31:22,791 --> 01:31:23,791
that's all done,

1756
01:31:23,791 --> 01:31:25,666
like automatically

1757
01:31:25,666 --> 01:31:26,666
which yeah,

1758
01:31:26,666 --> 01:31:28,791
I have log time want that

1759
01:31:28,791 --> 01:31:29,416
because I hate

1760
01:31:29,416 --> 01:31:31,250
scheduling stuff in-store.

1761
01:31:31,250 --> 01:31:31,458
Yeah.

1762
01:31:31,458 --> 01:31:32,708
And so

1763
01:31:32,708 --> 01:31:33,541
you know,

1764
01:31:33,541 --> 01:31:34,625
like how do we not have

1765
01:31:34,625 --> 01:31:35,666
a calendar integration

1766
01:31:35,666 --> 01:31:36,500
in this app.

1767
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:37,208
That's crazy.

1768
01:31:37,208 --> 01:31:38,958
So I'm a big I'm

1769
01:31:38,958 --> 01:31:40,125
a big calendly.

1770
01:31:40,125 --> 01:31:40,791
I have like

1771
01:31:40,791 --> 01:31:42,250
five different calendars

1772
01:31:42,250 --> 01:31:42,750
and they're all

1773
01:31:42,750 --> 01:31:43,666
sort of set up. Right.

1774
01:31:43,666 --> 01:31:44,458
But it is one of those

1775
01:31:44,458 --> 01:31:44,916
that like

1776
01:31:44,916 --> 01:31:46,458
I love more than anything.

1777
01:31:46,458 --> 01:31:47,125
If someone said

1778
01:31:47,125 --> 01:31:47,833
we should totally meet

1779
01:31:47,833 --> 01:31:48,500
about that,

1780
01:31:48,500 --> 01:31:49,458
take about three seconds

1781
01:31:49,458 --> 01:31:50,250
and you got my link,

1782
01:31:50,250 --> 01:31:50,750
I'm like,

1783
01:31:50,750 --> 01:31:51,708
you know, find a time

1784
01:31:51,708 --> 01:31:52,541
that works. Yeah.

1785
01:31:52,541 --> 01:31:53,875
Like just compressing

1786
01:31:53,875 --> 01:31:54,625
that versus going

1787
01:31:54,625 --> 01:31:56,208
is Tuesday afternoon.

1788
01:31:56,208 --> 01:31:57,083
Let me let me get my,

1789
01:31:57,083 --> 01:31:58,416
you know, or whatever. Yeah.

1790
01:31:58,416 --> 01:32:00,333
yeah.

1791
01:32:00,333 --> 01:32:02,666
So, amazing.

1792
01:32:02,666 --> 01:32:04,083
So let's go,

1793
01:32:04,083 --> 01:32:05,041
let's let's hit,

1794
01:32:05,041 --> 01:32:07,583
your one, so 0 to 1.

1795
01:32:08,666 --> 01:32:09,833
When, when did you

1796
01:32:09,833 --> 01:32:11,125
feel like you hit that?

1797
01:32:11,125 --> 01:32:12,125
Sort of like.

1798
01:32:12,125 --> 01:32:14,541
I'm not I'm not wondering.

1799
01:32:14,541 --> 01:32:15,916
I'm not guessing.

1800
01:32:15,916 --> 01:32:17,541
Was it was it post

1801
01:32:17,541 --> 01:32:19,041
first raise second raise.

1802
01:32:19,041 --> 01:32:19,541
Was it

1803
01:32:19,541 --> 01:32:20,958
like a certain milestone

1804
01:32:20,958 --> 01:32:21,500
that you got to

1805
01:32:21,500 --> 01:32:22,791
where you went like,

1806
01:32:22,791 --> 01:32:25,791
okay, waters are are calm.

1807
01:32:26,708 --> 01:32:27,750
I can see forward.

1808
01:32:27,750 --> 01:32:29,041
I'm not really worried about,

1809
01:32:29,041 --> 01:32:30,666
you know, covering payroll

1810
01:32:30,666 --> 01:32:31,333
by moving around

1811
01:32:31,333 --> 01:32:32,250
the shell game or whatever

1812
01:32:32,250 --> 01:32:32,958
like heavy.

1813
01:32:32,958 --> 01:32:33,875
Was there a period

1814
01:32:33,875 --> 01:32:34,666
where you got to that

1815
01:32:34,666 --> 01:32:35,541
and you were like, okay,

1816
01:32:35,541 --> 01:32:36,458
I can breathe for a second

1817
01:32:36,458 --> 01:32:37,458
now it's time to grow. Yeah.

1818
01:32:37,458 --> 01:32:38,291
I think,

1819
01:32:38,291 --> 01:32:38,500
it was

1820
01:32:38,500 --> 01:32:41,375
when we probably hit like,

1821
01:32:41,375 --> 01:32:41,916
you know,

1822
01:32:41,916 --> 01:32:43,666
so our revenue is like

1823
01:32:43,666 --> 01:32:44,541
so, you know, recruiting

1824
01:32:44,541 --> 01:32:45,583
from some, like a gross

1825
01:32:45,583 --> 01:32:47,125
top line revenue, right.

1826
01:32:47,125 --> 01:32:48,291
Which basically

1827
01:32:48,291 --> 01:32:50,083
market like they call it

1828
01:32:50,083 --> 01:32:50,666
GMP in

1829
01:32:50,666 --> 01:32:52,500
marketplace businesses.

1830
01:32:52,500 --> 01:32:53,958
And then we have a split

1831
01:32:53,958 --> 01:32:55,625
that's like to the business

1832
01:32:55,625 --> 01:32:57,166
not to the developers. Right.

1833
01:32:57,166 --> 01:32:58,583
And so

1834
01:32:58,583 --> 01:32:59,541
we call that line

1835
01:32:59,541 --> 01:33:00,583
item net revenue.

1836
01:33:00,583 --> 01:33:02,208
So from a net revenue basis

1837
01:33:02,208 --> 01:33:03,750
I think we were doing like

1838
01:33:04,791 --> 01:33:08,416
15200

1839
01:33:08,416 --> 01:33:09,208
a year,

1840
01:33:09,208 --> 01:33:10,250
something like this

1841
01:33:10,250 --> 01:33:11,875
probably year

1842
01:33:11,875 --> 01:33:12,916
like probably halfway

1843
01:33:12,916 --> 01:33:15,916
in the year three I think.

1844
01:33:16,250 --> 01:33:19,958
and that was the year

1845
01:33:19,958 --> 01:33:21,083
that I,

1846
01:33:21,083 --> 01:33:23,000
and I set up the team on 50

1847
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:24,666
K, your salaries.

1848
01:33:24,666 --> 01:33:26,750
I was like, cool.

1849
01:33:26,750 --> 01:33:27,666
They have employment

1850
01:33:27,666 --> 01:33:28,833
contracts,

1851
01:33:28,833 --> 01:33:30,166
we have salaries

1852
01:33:30,166 --> 01:33:33,041
as a payroll provider.

1853
01:33:33,041 --> 01:33:34,458
Real money. Yeah. Yeah.

1854
01:33:34,458 --> 01:33:36,708
I was like, yeah, I think so.

1855
01:33:36,708 --> 01:33:37,958
That's like that maybe a year

1856
01:33:37,958 --> 01:33:38,500
two and a half.

1857
01:33:38,500 --> 01:33:40,083
And so that was the time

1858
01:33:40,083 --> 01:33:40,625
when I was like,

1859
01:33:40,625 --> 01:33:42,125
you know what.

1860
01:33:42,125 --> 01:33:44,041
And this all goes to shit.

1861
01:33:44,041 --> 01:33:46,250
Like I knew that we could go

1862
01:33:46,250 --> 01:33:47,916
and make salaries.

1863
01:33:47,916 --> 01:33:49,000
And I also like, knew

1864
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:49,625
that we could go

1865
01:33:49,625 --> 01:33:50,833
build something else

1866
01:33:50,833 --> 01:33:51,625
because we've done it

1867
01:33:51,625 --> 01:33:53,375
once before

1868
01:33:53,375 --> 01:33:56,041
and also at that time, like,

1869
01:33:56,041 --> 01:33:57,666
this is how I've always been.

1870
01:33:57,666 --> 01:33:59,166
and the pandemic

1871
01:33:59,166 --> 01:34:00,333
is just a little bit harder.

1872
01:34:00,333 --> 01:34:02,125
But I'll take every meeting

1873
01:34:02,125 --> 01:34:03,291
like somebody wants to meet.

1874
01:34:03,291 --> 01:34:04,375
I'll take that meeting.

1875
01:34:04,375 --> 01:34:04,875
I don't even know

1876
01:34:04,875 --> 01:34:05,958
what the fuck I'm doing it.

1877
01:34:05,958 --> 01:34:08,958
But like all things of it,

1878
01:34:09,083 --> 01:34:10,041
yeah, it will be value

1879
01:34:10,041 --> 01:34:10,916
add for them, value

1880
01:34:10,916 --> 01:34:12,083
add for us. Right?

1881
01:34:12,083 --> 01:34:13,625
And so

1882
01:34:13,625 --> 01:34:14,125
it just take

1883
01:34:14,125 --> 01:34:14,875
a lot of meetings

1884
01:34:14,875 --> 01:34:16,083
and I think,

1885
01:34:16,083 --> 01:34:17,416
you know, and the

1886
01:34:17,416 --> 01:34:18,416
it's still true today.

1887
01:34:18,416 --> 01:34:18,916
But if you're

1888
01:34:18,916 --> 01:34:19,708
running a business

1889
01:34:19,708 --> 01:34:21,000
and you're an entrepreneur

1890
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:22,166
like companies

1891
01:34:22,166 --> 01:34:23,250
want to meet with

1892
01:34:23,250 --> 01:34:24,375
you just to explore,

1893
01:34:24,375 --> 01:34:25,333
see what's interesting.

1894
01:34:25,333 --> 01:34:26,416
And like, yeah,

1895
01:34:26,416 --> 01:34:28,250
they will give you an offer,

1896
01:34:28,250 --> 01:34:28,583
right.

1897
01:34:28,583 --> 01:34:28,916
Maybe

1898
01:34:28,916 --> 01:34:29,875
it's like an offer

1899
01:34:29,875 --> 01:34:31,250
for 25 grand

1900
01:34:31,250 --> 01:34:32,791
for the whole business.

1901
01:34:32,791 --> 01:34:33,541
Maybe it's like,

1902
01:34:33,541 --> 01:34:35,666
hey, come take a job with us.

1903
01:34:35,666 --> 01:34:36,791
What if you've turned

1904
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:38,541
nothing

1905
01:34:38,541 --> 01:34:40,166
into something that is, like,

1906
01:34:40,166 --> 01:34:41,666
impressive in its own right?

1907
01:34:41,666 --> 01:34:43,916
And by then, like, by year,

1908
01:34:43,916 --> 01:34:45,083
maybe by a year or two,

1909
01:34:45,083 --> 01:34:45,208
like,

1910
01:34:45,208 --> 01:34:46,416
we've already had those

1911
01:34:46,416 --> 01:34:47,541
validation points

1912
01:34:47,541 --> 01:34:48,208
where, like, people like,

1913
01:34:48,208 --> 01:34:49,083
oh, that's interesting.

1914
01:34:49,083 --> 01:34:50,875
You just come do this for us,

1915
01:34:50,875 --> 01:34:51,416
you know,

1916
01:34:51,416 --> 01:34:52,708
we'll take care of a team,

1917
01:34:52,708 --> 01:34:53,541
blah, blah, blah.

1918
01:34:53,541 --> 01:34:55,791
And so I think like

1919
01:34:55,791 --> 01:34:56,875
we got that,

1920
01:34:56,875 --> 01:34:58,166
like since I've taken

1921
01:34:58,166 --> 01:34:59,541
every possible meeting

1922
01:34:59,541 --> 01:35:00,916
that ever comes across

1923
01:35:00,916 --> 01:35:02,250
or I meet with somebody

1924
01:35:02,250 --> 01:35:02,583
like, hey,

1925
01:35:02,583 --> 01:35:03,625
you should talk to so-and-so.

1926
01:35:03,625 --> 01:35:05,083
I talked to that person.

1927
01:35:05,083 --> 01:35:05,583
They're like me

1928
01:35:05,583 --> 01:35:06,250
with this person,

1929
01:35:06,250 --> 01:35:07,833
and you do all that.

1930
01:35:07,833 --> 01:35:08,625
Somebody along

1931
01:35:08,625 --> 01:35:09,166
the way is like,

1932
01:35:09,166 --> 01:35:10,041
hey, this is interesting.

1933
01:35:10,041 --> 01:35:10,666
Why don't you just come

1934
01:35:10,666 --> 01:35:12,166
do this for our company?

1935
01:35:12,166 --> 01:35:14,208
You just end up

1936
01:35:14,208 --> 01:35:15,708
like you get the validation.

1937
01:35:15,708 --> 01:35:16,250
I think,

1938
01:35:16,250 --> 01:35:17,375
even if the financials

1939
01:35:17,375 --> 01:35:18,541
don't reflect it yet.

1940
01:35:18,541 --> 01:35:19,625
so. Right.

1941
01:35:19,625 --> 01:35:20,583
So my viewpoint is

1942
01:35:20,583 --> 01:35:22,583
I maybe the extractable

1943
01:35:22,583 --> 01:35:24,375
principle is like,

1944
01:35:24,375 --> 01:35:25,250
people advise you

1945
01:35:25,250 --> 01:35:26,291
to stay focused

1946
01:35:26,291 --> 01:35:28,166
and to stay, like, on a path

1947
01:35:28,166 --> 01:35:28,958
that you really have

1948
01:35:28,958 --> 01:35:30,291
conviction in.

1949
01:35:30,291 --> 01:35:30,916
But I tend to

1950
01:35:30,916 --> 01:35:31,625
just think, like,

1951
01:35:31,625 --> 01:35:33,416
meet with everybody,

1952
01:35:33,416 --> 01:35:34,791
share what you're working

1953
01:35:34,791 --> 01:35:36,000
on, you know,

1954
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:37,500
talk about what's exciting,

1955
01:35:37,500 --> 01:35:38,250
spend some time

1956
01:35:38,250 --> 01:35:39,083
and framing it in

1957
01:35:39,083 --> 01:35:40,083
a way that they care.

1958
01:35:40,083 --> 01:35:42,333
But generally if you do that,

1959
01:35:42,333 --> 01:35:43,041
like you will

1960
01:35:43,041 --> 01:35:44,250
develop confidence

1961
01:35:44,250 --> 01:35:45,458
or you'll pivot

1962
01:35:45,458 --> 01:35:46,958
really quickly into something

1963
01:35:46,958 --> 01:35:48,708
that is maybe

1964
01:35:48,708 --> 01:35:49,583
more interesting.

1965
01:35:49,583 --> 01:35:50,833
so yeah,

1966
01:35:50,833 --> 01:35:52,041
by the time

1967
01:35:52,041 --> 01:35:54,750
we were on year three, we,

1968
01:35:54,750 --> 01:35:55,750
I was like,

1969
01:35:55,750 --> 01:35:56,583
this something,

1970
01:35:56,583 --> 01:35:56,958
I don't know

1971
01:35:56,958 --> 01:35:58,416
how big it will be.

1972
01:35:58,416 --> 01:35:59,083
Yeah, like

1973
01:35:59,083 --> 01:36:01,208
but it's something for sure.

1974
01:36:01,208 --> 01:36:02,083
Yeah, yeah

1975
01:36:02,083 --> 01:36:03,291
I'm sure, I'm sure there's a,

1976
01:36:03,291 --> 01:36:04,458
there's also a moment of

1977
01:36:04,458 --> 01:36:05,750
just like exhale

1978
01:36:05,750 --> 01:36:07,166
where to your point.

1979
01:36:07,166 --> 01:36:09,833
Like payrolls just running

1980
01:36:09,833 --> 01:36:11,625
not getting paid

1981
01:36:11,625 --> 01:36:12,500
and you know what I mean.

1982
01:36:12,500 --> 01:36:13,666
And and that you get

1983
01:36:13,666 --> 01:36:14,916
to sort of take a breath

1984
01:36:14,916 --> 01:36:15,791
that you got to that point.

1985
01:36:15,791 --> 01:36:16,666
And I could see that

1986
01:36:16,666 --> 01:36:18,083
as just a big chapter change.

1987
01:36:18,083 --> 01:36:19,583
Also that probably yes,

1988
01:36:19,583 --> 01:36:20,833
propelled you to go, okay.

1989
01:36:20,833 --> 01:36:21,666
Now. Now what?

1990
01:36:21,666 --> 01:36:22,250
You know what I mean.

1991
01:36:22,250 --> 01:36:23,041
Like, let's take this

1992
01:36:23,041 --> 01:36:23,666
and run with it.

1993
01:36:23,666 --> 01:36:24,250
I'm not having to

1994
01:36:24,250 --> 01:36:24,708
sort of walk

1995
01:36:24,708 --> 01:36:26,041
uphill the whole time,

1996
01:36:26,041 --> 01:36:26,583
which is.

1997
01:36:26,583 --> 01:36:27,458
That's awesome. Yeah.

1998
01:36:27,458 --> 01:36:30,291
The and this depends on

1999
01:36:30,291 --> 01:36:31,041
this depends

2000
01:36:31,041 --> 01:36:33,250
on like every industry.

2001
01:36:33,250 --> 01:36:35,125
But what I have found is like

2002
01:36:36,166 --> 01:36:37,958
VCs in particular,

2003
01:36:37,958 --> 01:36:39,416
they really care about

2004
01:36:39,416 --> 01:36:40,291
like what is your

2005
01:36:40,291 --> 01:36:42,500
competitive differentiation,

2006
01:36:42,500 --> 01:36:43,458
what is unique

2007
01:36:43,458 --> 01:36:44,666
about your product.

2008
01:36:44,666 --> 01:36:46,041
And like you will spend

2009
01:36:46,041 --> 01:36:48,000
a lot of cycles

2010
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:49,916
thinking about the market,

2011
01:36:49,916 --> 01:36:52,208
thinking about what to build,

2012
01:36:52,208 --> 01:36:53,500
spending cycles

2013
01:36:53,500 --> 01:36:55,083
on, how it's being built.

2014
01:36:55,083 --> 01:36:56,083
Exactly,

2015
01:36:56,083 --> 01:36:56,875
and at least

2016
01:36:56,875 --> 01:36:57,875
for our business.

2017
01:36:57,875 --> 01:36:59,000
And I probably came to this

2018
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:00,333
like a couple years too late.

2019
01:37:00,333 --> 01:37:01,000
Like, you remember this

2020
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:01,625
in the early days

2021
01:37:01,625 --> 01:37:02,541
and you forget as you're

2022
01:37:02,541 --> 01:37:04,208
scaling and like, reemerges.

2023
01:37:04,208 --> 01:37:05,375
But yeah,

2024
01:37:05,375 --> 01:37:07,000
what I found is like,

2025
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:09,000
if you just meet with people

2026
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:09,708
and they like

2027
01:37:09,708 --> 01:37:11,291
what you're up to,

2028
01:37:11,291 --> 01:37:12,375
they will find a way

2029
01:37:12,375 --> 01:37:13,791
to tell you how you need

2030
01:37:13,791 --> 01:37:14,750
to improve your product

2031
01:37:14,750 --> 01:37:16,375
to get their business

2032
01:37:16,375 --> 01:37:17,083
for asset.

2033
01:37:17,083 --> 01:37:18,375
And the differentiation

2034
01:37:18,375 --> 01:37:18,833
piece, like,

2035
01:37:18,833 --> 01:37:21,125
kind of takes care of itself.

2036
01:37:21,125 --> 01:37:22,916
If you're a customer focused,

2037
01:37:22,916 --> 01:37:24,541
like customer value focused.

2038
01:37:25,958 --> 01:37:27,708
so

2039
01:37:27,708 --> 01:37:28,750
yeah, I mean,

2040
01:37:28,750 --> 01:37:29,000
it's like,

2041
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:29,500
what's the difference

2042
01:37:29,500 --> 01:37:31,708
between OpenAI

2043
01:37:31,708 --> 01:37:33,500
and any of the other labs?

2044
01:37:33,500 --> 01:37:34,375
There's no difference.

2045
01:37:34,375 --> 01:37:34,958
They just from

2046
01:37:34,958 --> 01:37:35,666
a lot of money,

2047
01:37:35,666 --> 01:37:36,708
they were first to market.

2048
01:37:36,708 --> 01:37:37,666
They have the relationships

2049
01:37:37,666 --> 01:37:38,208
to scale it.

2050
01:37:38,208 --> 01:37:39,583
Like that's it. Yeah.

2051
01:37:39,583 --> 01:37:40,125
You know,

2052
01:37:40,125 --> 01:37:40,916
no,

2053
01:37:40,916 --> 01:37:43,791
that's how I think about it.

2054
01:37:43,791 --> 01:37:44,916
So what's

2055
01:37:44,916 --> 01:37:45,250
so let's

2056
01:37:45,250 --> 01:37:45,791
go to the,

2057
01:37:45,791 --> 01:37:47,458
the let's go to the beyond

2058
01:37:47,458 --> 01:37:48,375
the 2 to 3 years.

2059
01:37:48,375 --> 01:37:50,666
Can you see

2060
01:37:50,666 --> 01:37:52,458
can you see yourself,

2061
01:37:52,458 --> 01:37:53,041
you know,

2062
01:37:53,041 --> 01:37:55,416
either, 10

2063
01:37:55,416 --> 01:37:55,916
or 20 years

2064
01:37:55,916 --> 01:37:56,916
in the future, like,

2065
01:37:56,916 --> 01:37:58,666
either beyond Gun or,

2066
01:37:58,666 --> 01:38:00,375
you know, or retirement.

2067
01:38:00,375 --> 01:38:01,041
Can you see yourself

2068
01:38:01,041 --> 01:38:02,208
retiring at any point,

2069
01:38:02,208 --> 01:38:03,416
or would you see yourself

2070
01:38:03,416 --> 01:38:04,708
just doing this again?

2071
01:38:04,708 --> 01:38:05,958
Or,

2072
01:38:05,958 --> 01:38:06,666
what does the future

2073
01:38:06,666 --> 01:38:07,500
look like?

2074
01:38:07,500 --> 01:38:08,583
sort of beyond

2075
01:38:08,583 --> 01:38:09,416
ten years from now?

2076
01:38:09,416 --> 01:38:09,708
Yeah.

2077
01:38:09,708 --> 01:38:10,791
I mean, I would say like,

2078
01:38:10,791 --> 01:38:12,166
I've been

2079
01:38:12,166 --> 01:38:13,875
I've been pretty lucky.

2080
01:38:13,875 --> 01:38:14,875
Like, our team is,

2081
01:38:14,875 --> 01:38:15,708
pretty lucky, like,

2082
01:38:15,708 --> 01:38:17,375
from a financial dimension.

2083
01:38:17,375 --> 01:38:18,833
Like, we've kind of.

2084
01:38:18,833 --> 01:38:21,041
We've rode the remote wave.

2085
01:38:21,041 --> 01:38:21,750
We operated

2086
01:38:21,750 --> 01:38:23,541
during the Covid boom

2087
01:38:23,541 --> 01:38:24,541
this last year.

2088
01:38:24,541 --> 01:38:25,041
And I would say

2089
01:38:25,041 --> 01:38:25,916
this year is a little bit

2090
01:38:25,916 --> 01:38:26,666
more challenging

2091
01:38:26,666 --> 01:38:28,000
and staffing.

2092
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:28,500
But, you know,

2093
01:38:28,500 --> 01:38:29,625
you have to take a broad,

2094
01:38:29,625 --> 01:38:30,791
broad view on these things.

2095
01:38:30,791 --> 01:38:32,333
I think I mean, for me,

2096
01:38:33,375 --> 01:38:34,375
you know, I do this

2097
01:38:34,375 --> 01:38:35,250
not because of the

2098
01:38:35,250 --> 01:38:37,458
financial reasons.

2099
01:38:37,458 --> 01:38:38,708
I do this because it's fun.

2100
01:38:38,708 --> 01:38:40,041
But there will probably be

2101
01:38:40,041 --> 01:38:41,583
a point

2102
01:38:41,583 --> 01:38:43,166
in the next couple of years

2103
01:38:43,166 --> 01:38:44,500
where, like,

2104
01:38:44,500 --> 01:38:45,625
either

2105
01:38:45,625 --> 01:38:47,416
I am not well suited to

2106
01:38:47,416 --> 01:38:48,291
like work

2107
01:38:48,291 --> 01:38:48,916
12 hours

2108
01:38:48,916 --> 01:38:49,875
a day

2109
01:38:49,875 --> 01:38:51,208
or, you know,

2110
01:38:51,208 --> 01:38:52,708
like the company gets bigger

2111
01:38:52,708 --> 01:38:53,708
than, like what

2112
01:38:53,708 --> 01:38:55,375
I'm able to

2113
01:38:55,375 --> 01:38:57,291
add value to and like.

2114
01:38:57,291 --> 01:38:59,625
And then maybe it's time to,

2115
01:38:59,625 --> 01:39:00,416
you know,

2116
01:39:00,416 --> 01:39:01,833
bring in somebody

2117
01:39:01,833 --> 01:39:03,958
from another background or,

2118
01:39:03,958 --> 01:39:04,250
you know,

2119
01:39:04,250 --> 01:39:05,333
consider a transition

2120
01:39:05,333 --> 01:39:06,250
or something like that.

2121
01:39:06,250 --> 01:39:07,916
But like my

2122
01:39:07,916 --> 01:39:09,166
but I will tell you, like,

2123
01:39:09,166 --> 01:39:10,333
this is dude,

2124
01:39:10,333 --> 01:39:13,458
who runs SoftBank.

2125
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:15,250
And like they've gone

2126
01:39:15,250 --> 01:39:16,083
in the process

2127
01:39:16,083 --> 01:39:16,791
for like making

2128
01:39:16,791 --> 01:39:17,875
some poor investments.

2129
01:39:17,875 --> 01:39:20,000
But I like the founder.

2130
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:22,166
founders worldview

2131
01:39:22,166 --> 01:39:23,000
where he's like,

2132
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:24,833
he wants to build like a 100

2133
01:39:24,833 --> 01:39:27,125
year business, right.

2134
01:39:27,125 --> 01:39:27,875
and that's the way

2135
01:39:27,875 --> 01:39:28,291
that I think

2136
01:39:28,291 --> 01:39:30,291
about our company as, like,

2137
01:39:30,291 --> 01:39:31,458
whether or not I'm

2138
01:39:31,458 --> 01:39:33,708
at the helm of that company.

2139
01:39:33,708 --> 01:39:35,958
no matter what shape

2140
01:39:35,958 --> 01:39:37,666
the company takes,

2141
01:39:37,666 --> 01:39:38,291
I feel like

2142
01:39:38,291 --> 01:39:39,666
I owe it to the market

2143
01:39:39,666 --> 01:39:41,666
based on what we do

2144
01:39:41,666 --> 01:39:43,125
to set up the company

2145
01:39:43,125 --> 01:39:45,708
to be an ongoing concern

2146
01:39:45,708 --> 01:39:47,708
for the next 90 years.

2147
01:39:47,708 --> 01:39:48,291
So that's

2148
01:39:48,291 --> 01:39:48,916
that's what I try

2149
01:39:48,916 --> 01:39:49,750
to spend my day

2150
01:39:49,750 --> 01:39:50,416
thinking about.

2151
01:39:50,416 --> 01:39:50,791
Generally,

2152
01:39:50,791 --> 01:39:51,250
when I make

2153
01:39:51,250 --> 01:39:52,958
strategic decisions,

2154
01:39:52,958 --> 01:39:54,166
I think about it like,

2155
01:39:55,166 --> 01:39:56,541
like this is

2156
01:39:56,541 --> 01:39:57,916
a 2 to 3 year

2157
01:39:57,916 --> 01:39:59,541
arc that we're pivoting

2158
01:39:59,541 --> 01:40:01,375
to, to realize an opportunity

2159
01:40:01,375 --> 01:40:02,666
that I see based on

2160
01:40:02,666 --> 01:40:04,375
market conditions.

2161
01:40:04,375 --> 01:40:05,666
Now we're going to execute on

2162
01:40:05,666 --> 01:40:08,083
for like a three year period,

2163
01:40:08,083 --> 01:40:11,083
but directionally sets us up

2164
01:40:11,291 --> 01:40:11,916
to continue

2165
01:40:11,916 --> 01:40:12,625
to operate

2166
01:40:12,625 --> 01:40:15,000
against a 100 year vision.

2167
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:16,041
so that that's just how

2168
01:40:16,041 --> 01:40:16,750
I think about it.

2169
01:40:16,750 --> 01:40:17,791
Like,

2170
01:40:17,791 --> 01:40:19,916
I yeah, I just

2171
01:40:19,916 --> 01:40:20,875
I want the company around

2172
01:40:20,875 --> 01:40:21,625
for a long time

2173
01:40:21,625 --> 01:40:22,791
whether or not I'm involved,

2174
01:40:22,791 --> 01:40:23,208
whether or not

2175
01:40:23,208 --> 01:40:24,166
my family is involved,

2176
01:40:24,166 --> 01:40:25,833
whether or not my coworkers

2177
01:40:25,833 --> 01:40:26,708
today are involved.

2178
01:40:26,708 --> 01:40:26,875
Like,

2179
01:40:26,875 --> 01:40:28,583
I want the company to

2180
01:40:28,583 --> 01:40:29,583
continue on,

2181
01:40:29,583 --> 01:40:30,333
at least

2182
01:40:30,333 --> 01:40:31,333
for the next ninety years.

2183
01:40:31,333 --> 01:40:33,291
So nice. Yeah.

2184
01:40:33,291 --> 01:40:34,041
Amazing.

2185
01:40:34,041 --> 01:40:35,666
Well, that's a that's a

2186
01:40:35,666 --> 01:40:36,791
that's a good vision to have.

2187
01:40:36,791 --> 01:40:38,916
And, you know,

2188
01:40:38,916 --> 01:40:39,416
that's a good,

2189
01:40:39,416 --> 01:40:40,833
that's a good,

2190
01:40:41,958 --> 01:40:43,083
thought to

2191
01:40:43,083 --> 01:40:44,000
leave people with is,

2192
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:45,625
is that 90 or 100 year vision

2193
01:40:45,625 --> 01:40:45,875
when you,

2194
01:40:45,875 --> 01:40:47,000
when you start into it.

2195
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:48,208
And I love

2196
01:40:48,208 --> 01:40:49,375
I love that ten years ago

2197
01:40:49,375 --> 01:40:50,541
you were like, okay, I'm

2198
01:40:50,541 --> 01:40:50,833
all in

2199
01:40:50,833 --> 01:40:51,125
and I'm going

2200
01:40:51,125 --> 01:40:51,875
to start doing this.

2201
01:40:51,875 --> 01:40:53,416
And you know,

2202
01:40:53,416 --> 01:40:53,833
you've gotten to

2203
01:40:53,833 --> 01:40:54,916
where you're at now.

2204
01:40:54,916 --> 01:40:56,041
And I love the company.

2205
01:40:56,041 --> 01:40:57,583
and,

2206
01:40:57,583 --> 01:40:58,375
and I love that

2207
01:40:58,375 --> 01:40:59,666
that you're setting up for,

2208
01:40:59,666 --> 01:41:00,791
for the long term success.

2209
01:41:00,791 --> 01:41:03,250
So, amazing.

2210
01:41:03,250 --> 01:41:03,541
And you're

2211
01:41:03,541 --> 01:41:04,458
coming into New York.

2212
01:41:04,458 --> 01:41:06,416
Yeah. tonight.

2213
01:41:06,416 --> 01:41:07,458
So, yeah,

2214
01:41:07,458 --> 01:41:09,083
I leave that

2215
01:41:09,083 --> 01:41:10,916
640 Nashville time,

2216
01:41:10,916 --> 01:41:11,958
so I'll ping you

2217
01:41:11,958 --> 01:41:12,500
when I'm there.

2218
01:41:12,500 --> 01:41:13,458
I may

2219
01:41:13,458 --> 01:41:14,208
I may

2220
01:41:14,208 --> 01:41:15,625
go directly to the hotel,

2221
01:41:15,625 --> 01:41:16,750
but I'll see where you're at

2222
01:41:16,750 --> 01:41:17,000
and see

2223
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:17,875
if we're going to break

2224
01:41:17,875 --> 01:41:18,666
or something.

2225
01:41:18,666 --> 01:41:20,958
Totally. So amazing.

2226
01:41:20,958 --> 01:41:21,916
Yeah. Cool.

2227
01:41:21,916 --> 01:41:22,166
Well,

2228
01:41:22,166 --> 01:41:23,916
thanks for for coming on the

2229
01:41:23,916 --> 01:41:24,583
the podcast.

2230
01:41:24,583 --> 01:41:25,458
That was your idea.

2231
01:41:27,083 --> 01:41:28,000
You know,

2232
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:29,291
you totally you were like

2233
01:41:29,291 --> 01:41:29,875
you were like,

2234
01:41:29,875 --> 01:41:30,708
you should have one.

2235
01:41:30,708 --> 01:41:31,166
You should have it.

2236
01:41:31,166 --> 01:41:32,125
You should have podcast

2237
01:41:32,125 --> 01:41:33,625
like, okay, as here we go.

2238
01:41:33,625 --> 01:41:36,125
Well now now you're on it.

2239
01:41:36,125 --> 01:41:37,041
that you're doing it,

2240
01:41:37,041 --> 01:41:37,291
you know,

2241
01:41:37,291 --> 01:41:38,000
I think the world

2242
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:39,208
needs to hear your voice.

2243
01:41:39,208 --> 01:41:40,041
And I think you

2244
01:41:40,041 --> 01:41:42,041
bring a unique perspective,

2245
01:41:42,041 --> 01:41:43,875
to just the world.

2246
01:41:43,875 --> 01:41:44,416
So I'm

2247
01:41:44,416 --> 01:41:45,333
glad that you're doing it.

2248
01:41:45,333 --> 01:41:46,416
But it's not.

2249
01:41:46,416 --> 01:41:47,375
It's not my doing.

2250
01:41:47,375 --> 01:41:48,583
It's your doing. So. Yeah.

2251
01:41:48,583 --> 01:41:50,583
I'm happy that I'm here.

2252
01:41:50,583 --> 01:41:52,000
And,

2253
01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:53,416
to the extent that I could

2254
01:41:53,416 --> 01:41:53,875
maybe say

2255
01:41:53,875 --> 01:41:54,750
something interesting,

2256
01:41:54,750 --> 01:41:56,875
like I'm honored to have. So.

2257
01:41:56,875 --> 01:41:58,958
Yeah. Amazing. Cool.

2258
01:41:58,958 --> 01:42:00,708
Well, thank you man.

2259
01:42:00,708 --> 01:42:01,208
All right.

2260
01:42:01,208 --> 01:42:01,791
We'll talk soon.

2261
01:42:01,791 --> 01:42:02,958
Yeah, maybe. See you soon.

2262
01:42:02,958 --> 01:42:03,500
Who knows?

2263
01:42:03,500 --> 01:42:04,583
Up. Totally.

2264
01:42:04,583 --> 01:42:05,958
Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah.

2265
01:42:05,958 --> 01:42:07,000
See you.