Sarah Neill - Mys Tyler

All the things that has happened in the past 2 weeks, and it was just, like, mind blown emoji. It was like, okay. Great.

Was the first time that I'd really gone, okay. I actually can execute, and I do have good ideas. Like, you know, printing out business card. And I'm like, am I allowed to put CEO on there? Like, I felt like such a fraudster.

What what went through your mind, by the way, when you asked for 50 and he said a million?

You know what? Like, the past is the past. These things happen. Like, whatever whatever else. Like, I learned a lot from it.

And I said, and ultimately, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have become an entrepreneur. And he said,

are you thanking me for that? Wow. That's And I thought of that and

I was like, yeah. I probably would have been better off if I'd never become an entrepreneur.

So what's the oh, when you hit 5 years, is that 1? Did you hit 1? Yeah. From 0 to 1?

I don't know. When you hit 1 year? Maybe when I hit 1,000,000,000.

There you go. Alright. You set your 1 bar as set.

Hello. How are you?

Good. How are you doing?

Good. I just read that for maximum recording quality, I should have my computer plugged in.

There you go.

Trying to be a good pupil.

We want maximum stream quality. We just had a call yesterday, and I feel like the the way things move these days, there's so much to catch you up on. Things change so quick. But, amazing. Well, thanks for for joining and taking the time.

Yeah. I'm excited to chat.

Yeah. So I'm I'm excited to, like, I wanna get into, you know, the the sort of adviser, advisee role, that that, you know, relationship that we have. But I think, you know, really for this, what we're we're focused on is is miss Tyler and and your background. And the idea from a 0 to 1 is I mean, 0 to 1 is is great. And I've always thought though that, like, I'm not really sure what one is.

And so 0 to being that's that's the point that I feel like I'm at where I don't know what one is yet or what I will feel like when I hit 1. And so, you know, I'm really interested to, you know, for us to sort of dive into the the early days of of Miss Tyler, or actually maybe go back first before that. And, you know, you when you were at Mint and then that that place where you sort of decided to to head down a different path. Yeah.

Well, I might take you back even further than that. Nice.

Let's do it. Totally.

Yeah. Because I, you know, never really set out to be an entrepreneur. And it sort of happened for me in sort of an unusual way. My background, by the way, and we'll get into miss Tyler and what it is, but it it's not telecommunications, which is what my background is. And I am Australian, as you can hear from my accent, and I moved to New York in 2011.

And my background to that point had been sales and marketing. So I was in New York running sales and marketing for a telecommunications company. And while I was in that role and we did, like, virtual calling cards, so essentially, like, cheap calls to different places around the world. And when I was there, I met with a company that was doing, roaming SIM cards. So for people traveling around around the world.

And at that time, like, 70% of people would turn off cell cellular data when they traveled because, like, the fear of bill shock. You know, there's, like, $20 a megabyte. Yeah.

Exactly.

It's like there was always articles, like, you know, flights to Portugal, £300. You know, my phone bill, £3,000.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

So, I met with a company that was doing this really cool technology where they were essentially combining IMSIs, which is like the international mobile subscriber identity that sits on a SIM card. They were they were merging a bunch of IMSIs onto 1 SIM card so that when you're in Europe, you act like a local SIM card and you got local rate. When you're in America, you act like a local. And so it was very interesting. And so I I basically like, the company I worked for was privately owned.

And I said to the owner, I said, I I think we should trial this as, like, a separate product. And I put together, like, a a business sort of, you know, feasibility review about how much I thought it would cost. And I basically was like, you know, if you can give me, like, you know, $50,000, I can pilot this just like on the side. And he said, I think it's a great idea. And I think a great idea with someone who can execute is worth something.

So I'm gonna give you a $1,000,000 and I'll point you to hand over your job, your day job, and you're now the CEO of this company. Go set it up. And so I had never thought about being an entrepreneur. And I remember having conversations with a friend and I was, like, you know, printing out business card. And I'm like, am I allowed to put CEO on there?

Like, I felt like such a fraudster. But Oh

my goodness.

Yeah. So that was kind of just like this crazy crazy thing which, you know, in hindsight, like, you know, it really is, like, that powerful. And if there is a big opportunity and there is, you know, something that you're doing differently and there is an opportunity, then honestly, like especially, like, in these sort of businesses that really are design like, by design kind of require venture backing, then, you know, having a bit of money is the thing that can really test quickly, like, is there something here? And having focus, which, you know, we've we've talked about. It's really hard when you're starting a start up and you're doing something as a side hustle because start ups are so all encompassing.

So anyway, that that was kinda like my foray into becoming an entrepreneur. Definitely, like, we we launched the the product was called Doodad. And, you know, we were on, like, TechCrunch and Nextweb and Gizmodo, and we were growing revenue 10% week on week for 6 months straight. And, the critical floor was that, I had 4% equity in this company that I was running, and I had no control. And, this investor, you know, for a bunch of different reasons, was overexposed in terms of his energy.

Honestly, not even the financials. And he basically wanted to reduce his portfolio and focus on enterprise. So anything consumer facing had 2 weeks to shut down, and he wasn't interested in the sale or anything. So that was kind of what happened. So it was kind of like I I would was already booked in to speak at some conferences around the world.

And so I still went and I was, you know, standing there like, hi, I'm Sarah, the the CEO of DooDad that closed 2 weeks ago. And this is, you know, my experience.

And here's my story. Yeah. And

here's, like, you know, my experience of 12 months of setting up and shutting down an MVNO, like a mobile virtual network operator. And, at one of these conferences, David Glickman, who is the CEO of Mint Mobile, was also presenting. And he had been watching DoDAD and had reached out, and I've never replied because I was very busy. But at the time, Mint Mobile didn't even exist. He had a company called Ultra Mobile, and he said, we need someone entrepreneurial on our team.

We're growing really, really fast. And so I joined him and that team and that that business, which nobody's heard of, Ultra Mobile, was number 1 on the Inc 5,000. So it literally was the fastest growing private company in America. It did a

Oh my gosh.

A $118,000,000 in revenue in its first full year of operations, like, insane. And that was that was essentially a a product for immigrants and people that wanted to make cheap international calls, but it just bundled it on on top of, like, essentially a T Mobile, sell, service. So that was the product. And from that, we then incubated this brand, Mint Mobile, 3 years later. And so at the end of my time there, yeah, we we brought Ryan Reynolds on as an owner of the business and and everything.

Like, it went from being, like, working for this company that no one had heard of to, like, all of a sudden being, like, very cool.

So Yeah. Oh my gosh.

But What

a what a roller coaster.

Yeah. But so the experience of doodad was the first time that I'd really gone, okay. I actually can execute, and I do have good ideas. And once you know how to execute, it becomes very hard to not want to execute when you see a really big opportunity. It's really hard.

And I know I mean, you're, like, the most one of the most action biased people I've ever met. So, but it it's like when you know that you can just, like, do stuff. So, like, while I was at and and I was on a visa, I should say. So, like, that was also a restriction for me. So I needed to be employed by someone, which worked for Doodad because I had such a small percentage and I was earning market salary.

But I couldn't just go off and and do my own thing. So I really had this, like, drive to be an entrepreneur, but I also really wanted to be in New York. So that was kind of what I was straddling. And on the side, I started building apps. So, like, the first app I built, was launched in 2014, and it was like a very simple weather app.

And then I launched the festival friend finder app, a couple of years later. And then I was working on a few other things, but they were all, like, kind of, like, little small side hustle things that I was kind of it was like a hobby. It was fun for me. And miss Tyler was an idea that I've had the domain since 2014. So I've I've had the idea for a very long time, and it wasn't until 2020 that I basically was like I'd had 6 years of pent up entrepreneurial energy.

And I was like, I can't I can't not be doing this anymore. So and Right. Miss Tyler was too big an idea to do as a side hustle. And so I sadly left New York, and moved back to Australia where I didn't have the visa constraints. And I joined a program called Antler, which I got accepted into, which is like a little it's a a 3 to 6 month incubator designed to help sort of these early stage businesses get off the ground.

So so yeah. So I did that. And so, yeah, I guess, your question where did miss Sally come from? So my background is obviously, telco, but really my background, I would say, is, like, marketing. And, you know, marketing is all about just, like, understanding customers, understanding insights, you know, on one hand to know how to communicate to them, you know, in a compelling way or how to reach them.

But also, like, once you understand people's problems, you actually start thinking about how to solve them. And so you're like, well, how can we change the product to solve it better, or how do we create a new product to solve it better? So I think, you know, like, this kind of whole idea of, product market or, you know, like, minimum viable product and product market fit. Like, a lot of the times and it was actually interesting the process going through ATLA because in ATLA, it's very different to a traditional incubator where you pitch an idea with a team and you get an amount of funding and a period of time where they'll help you. Antler is almost like a step before that, so it's kind of like, if you want to be a founder, you may not have a team, you may not have an idea, but you are willing to sort of, you know, move into this this phase.

They put you all together, and the idea is that you start to matchmake, so you start to meet other people that are, like, wannabe founders, that are willing to take the risk at the same time. You know, and then if you can find someone that's a compliment to you skill wise, so generally, like, a commercial person and a technical person, and you can find someone who can be passionate about the same problem to solve, then you form a team. And then at the end of the 3 months, you pitch your team with your idea and you get the money. And I thought going in that everybody would have ideas. And so I was trying to be like, oh, you know, I have ideas, but, you know, obviously, like, I'll be open minded if somebody's idea is better, you know, whatever.

Girl. Yeah.

It was actually really surprising to me that, like, a lot of people don't actually have ideas. And, you know, there was a bunch you know, people came from different backgrounds, and you had a lot of people that came from, like, management consulting. And when I looked at how they sort of they were so, like, analytical. They were like, what's a big market that's growing fast? Okay.

So whatever fields, you know, like Right. EdTech, whatever it is. Like, how do we now find a a business in that that we can work in? As opposed to I sort of feel like the way that I've always operated is, like, from these, like, really small, tiny, like, insights and, like, these sort of moments where it's kind of like, oh, that was really annoying. Why is that so annoying?

And is there a solution to that annoyance?

Yeah.

You know, the other sort of category of people that came through Antler that were interesting were people that were, like you know, maybe they were a lawyer or, like, they were in some sort of specialized field where they could find annoyances that were, like, really scalable that, you know, traditional entrepreneurs trying to solve problems aren't aware of because they're not lawyers.

Yeah. And so that was,

like, the other sort of, like, really interesting, you know, place to find these problems is, like, you know, it's very specific use use case that's still, like, you know, got a large market for it. But yeah. So I actually found that interesting. And so miss Tyler, it was one of these moments where literally, you know, you know, my use of telco did not learn much about fashion. And it's just never really been, for me, like, a priority.

It's kind of like I'll turn up, and I don't care if I don't look perfect. I'd prefer to be somewhere. Then I can function. I can function no matter what I'm wearing. But Right.

I do have to get dressed, and I do feel better when I like what I wear. But I find the process really difficult. Like, I don't know like, I find it overwhelming. Like, what do I pick up? What do I put together when I go shopping?

It's like there's just so many options. And so I would default just to, you know, kinda like a uniform or just like jeans and a t shirt, you know, which is totally fine in start up culture, but I could have been doing better. And so at one point, I decided, you know, I'm gonna, like, elevate my wardrobe. So I took one of my girlfriends who's just, like, always, you know, put together, just knows what is on trend, knows what's appropriate for different situations. And we went shopping, and I was like, look.

Just pick out 3 outfits for me that I can just, like, add into my rotation. And I very quickly realized that she's she's perfected the art of dressing for somebody who is blonde and shorter and curvier, and she has no idea what's gonna suit me. And so it was kind of like this, like, oh, so she's just not good at fashion. She's good at she's, like, really practiced the art of, like, what suits her. So how do I then just find somebody who looks like me that's perfected the art of dressing for me?

Yeah.

And I like their style and they're better at it, and I could just copy them. So back in 2014, this is the day of, like, you know I don't even know whether the term creator existed yet. It was, like, the blogger. You know?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

And, but, you know, so you'd have all these fashion bloggers, but it but you'd never be able to see their height. Like, you know, they unless they happen to mention it in one comment somewhere, like, you just wouldn't know. And even if proportionally someone looks like you, like, if they're 5 foot 2 and you're 5 foot 8, things are very different.

Totally different. Yeah.

So the whole concept of miss Tyler, which, was just how do we create, like, a a version of Instagram for women's fashion where you could put in your height and your size, and we match you to the creators who are your height and size. And so you could just find people that look like you and

So great.

Copy them.

That's amazing. There's a there's a few really interesting things I wanna I wanna unpack there. I think one one of the things that's interesting what what went through your mind, by the way, when you asked for 50 and he said a1000000?

I mean, you know, obviously, shock because, like, you know, I just never sort of Somewhere

in your brain, you're probably thinking maybe he says a 100, maybe 7.

I mean, I like, in my in my mind, I wasn't even thinking that he would offer more. I would just be like, sure. I'll I'll fund this thing. If anything, it'll be like, well, you're gonna have to get less money. You know?

Yeah. I was I I didn't even consider that he would, like, say there's more money or or, you know, anything like that. But, you know, I mean, it is interesting because, obviously, like, shutting down Doodad was kind of devastating. Like, you know, it was I had to fire my whole team and myself. You know, there'd been so many suppliers, that had literally bent over backwards and done so many favors for us.

And, you know, we were just getting started, you know, and we were, like, on such a good track. And then we also only gave customers essentially 48 hours notice. And so it was kind of like, in 48 hours notice, you're not gonna have connectivity, so you need to find something new. And

Oh my goodness.

We'd actually built the brand I mean, the brand is awesome. Our tagline was when in Rome, which is like, how cute is that? And, there was a lot of personality to it. It was like, you know, if on the help section, it was like, if you need help, ask your mom. And if she doesn't know, then email us at I need help at, you know, to dad.

But, we were we were very human throughout the whole process. Like, if we made a mistake, we would share it. And at this time, we were basically like, look, we're sorry we're giving you such little notice, but we really didn't wanna shut down do that. So we were really trying to save it until the end. And we didn't get any negative, responses.

We just had people coming back and saying, thanks for giving it a go. Like, we really love this product. Is there anything you could do to help? So, I mean, like, that was pretty amazing. But, you know, I didn't speak to that investor for sort of like ever after.

But then in February this year, I ran into him in San Francisco, and it was actually, like, just really nice. And I said to him, you know what? Like, the past is the past. These things happen. Like, whatever whatever else.

Like, I learned a lot from it. And I said, and, ultimately, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have become an entrepreneur. And he said, are you thanking me for that?

Wow. That's

And I thought of that and I was like, yeah. I probably would have been better off if I'd never become an entrepreneur.

No. But what's what's so interesting is that you it was such a gift that you got this sort of, like, entrepreneurial start up with guardrails in a in a in a sort of setting where you already had sort of experience. People in and around there, and you had some money, and you had some and so you got to sort of start from that that base, which is really interesting. And then I also I imagine in your mind, a a a switch flipped when you said, I got an idea. And someone went, great.

Here's a 1,000,000. And you went, oh, wait. Wait. This is a thing. I can have an idea and somebody will literally give me a $1,000,000, which is I imagine, you know, when you first start, and obviously what I've gone through is the first couple times you start pitching investors.

Right? And you're sort of like, I'll ask. I don't wanna I don't wanna over sell this, and I'm gonna be conservative with it, and I'm gonna like, you know, and the all these sort of things are going through your mind, but so interesting that one of your first entrepreneurial, experiences was saying, here here's an idea, and someone went, great. Here's a million.

And I should say for any listening that has found fundraising a difficult experience, I too. I too find funding fundraising a very difficult experience. I you know, it is really tough and that was not, like, I've never had that experience again. You know, that was that was very atypical. And and it came with its downsides.

I had no control and I ended up having this incredible business, like, incredible business. And in hindsight, what I know now, I probably could have gone and, you know, given him, like, a a big check to acquire it. You know? So anyway but I mean yeah. But fundraising, we'll get into that because, you know, while I technically fundraise, I guess, for that, I I didn't really.

And so going into start ups again, like, always, like, little upside down on the side. I just, like, bootstrapped. It was kinda just, like, my play money. Oh, yeah. I saw I saw it as, like, educational funds.

Yeah. But, you know, miss Tyler was, like, such a big idea that I needed to fundraise, and fundraising is really, really hard. And and I I think as well, it's harder in Australia. I think if I'd found a way to sort of be in America, it's hard it's hard anyway. It's hard for everyone.

But it's Yeah. Harder.

Well, it it changes so much from, you know, I in past lives, past light lives? Life, I, did acting and, very similar to the audition process. Right? And you have to sort of get used to the fact that you could literally audition twice in one day and do the same thing. And one person is like, oh my gosh.

That's so great. And the next person is like, this is a terrible choice. And you just, like, you can't you can't take whatever you get from one person, or the enthusiasm of the next person and sort of, like, bank on that. You almost have to put all of that in the soup and then sort of stir it around and, like, you know, make judgment calls on stuff and and and find a way to, I guess, just listen to your to your gut and and to the people around you, like your advisers. Wink.

But but very similar to that thing is that, you know, you could you could feel like you you you nailed the deck and you've got your pitch down or whatever, and you're just sure this is such a big problem with such a big upside. And the next 5 people are like, no. Yeah. It's, I don't know. But that doesn't mean it's not right.

It's just like it's the it's the volume game.

100%. Percent. And most investors aren't gonna, like, understand as much as you do. And, I mean, it is very true, though. Like, investors have different styles.

Like, so some of them will just, like, play the devil's advocate, you know, or some of them will sort of, like, keep their cards close to their chest. Whereas, like, some of them will just, like, get really enthusiastic with you and kind of, like, go down, like, the journey of, like, sort of, like, getting to really understand it, and and that can be really energizing. But, you know, I guess what I've learned is that, you know like, honestly, sometimes, like, the the the easiest the the quickest, fastest checks are sort of the ones that you don't expect. And the ones that you think is like a no brainer and that you feel like you're just, like, so in just, like Yeah. Doesn't go anywhere.

So it is actually it's it's hard to know, but I mean, it is ultimately it's a numbers game. It's you just need to be speaking to enough people because even if they like the idea, it's also about what else they have going on at the time. Like, how much funds they have, where they're looking to deploy, what else they're looking at.

I mean And how else can they be a help from a partner perspective or from, you know, or connections or whatever? Is it just money? And there's so many different aspects to it. But, yeah. That's well, and the other thing that I that I thought was really interesting was, going through kinda mint also and starting again in that sort of young sort of growth and seeing a bit of that trajectory, you got a little bit of early to mid stage, right, of of seeing something else grow.

Actually, you know, one one great thing. I mean, you know, there's a lot of great things about, you know, Mint and and David David, the CEO in particular. Like, he is, I used to help him. We we used to do, like, thought leadership pieces for, like, Forbes and things like that. And, you know, we sort of, like, talked about David as being, like, this guru of hypergrowth because prior to Ultra, he'd had 2 other companies that had both been number 1 on the Inc 5,000.

Oh, wow.

So he He's

just got that on

the line. Person. He was the only person that's ever had multiple I think 3 businesses that have been, like, number 1 on Inc 5,000. And it's not like, you know, you're just hacking the game. I mean, he did a $118,000,000 in revenue in the 1st full year of operations.

It's like that is like, these are significant businesses. So There's

a cheat code in there somewhere.

I think he's just he thinks really big. Like, he just thinks really big. Like, for as an example, I was chatting to him because I think I'm generally, you know, resourceful. Like, resourceful, I would say, is, like, my greatest strength. I kind of assume that I don't have much, and I have to be, like, super effective with what I have.

David just thinks bigger. He just you know? So, I was saying to him so the whole idea of miss Tyler is obviously, like, you know, that we've got these crowdsourced fashion inspiration and, you know, people showing you what you can buy. And I should say that so so where we are today, just with miss miss Tyler, just to give context. So we we launched it in, like, incorporated in March 2020.

So we're, like, coming up to, like, nearly 5 years since incorporation, but, obviously, I'd been working on this idea since 2014. But we've had, like, you know, 650,000 women have downloaded our app. We've got, like, thousands of creators. The 2 kind of key things that have come out of it, you know, for proof points is that 86% of our users are more body confident just by using our app. Because in the world of fashion, fashion is not representative.

Most people are looking at bodies that don't look like theirs, and then it doesn't make them feel good. So by seeing people who look like you that are also stylish and confident, it's really it's kind of like inspiration that's accessible, which is amazing. But then, you know, like, even probably more so, like, from a consumer point of view, like, that's honestly, like, kind of our mission and our driving force is that, you know, we can do this. We can play this role where we can actually just, like, help women feel good about themselves and find clothes that make them feel great. But, like, sort of more of it, like, an, an efficiency of the industry point of view, the return rate in in fashion and apparel is, like, 40% for online.

It's, like, huge, and it's, like, very costly, and it's, you know, very inefficient, and it's got big sustainability impacts as well. Our return rate is less than 5%, so it's, like, 6 times lower. So we're we're sort of doing some really incredible things there.

And Love that. One of the one of the things I I wanna, like, I wanna go into is that that early spark or that early moment. You had that moment when you you were with your friend and you're trying on clothes, but you also had that idea earlier, and it sort of incubated for a little bit. What was the what was the, like and then you had the experience of starting to try, like, building apps. What was that sort of turning point when you when all of those, like, meshed into the, like, I think this is what I'm gonna start in on?

Yeah. So I guess the first part was, you know, I was, like, well, this is my experience, but most people just know how to how to get dressed. You know, like, this is, like, a me problem. But as I sort of would talk about my idea with friends over the next 6 years, so I guess, like, informally validating, I realized that actually everybody was like, oh, no. I would love that too.

Like, even people who love fashion and, I I would say are very confident Like, oh my god. That would be amazing. And I always had a lot of ideas, and it was the idea that my friends kept saying, like, out of all your ideas, when are you gonna build miss Tyler? So so there was kind of that. Then two things that actually while I was working at Mint Mobile, I launched our affiliate marketing.

And so I, you know, sort of, like, did a deep dive into this whole space of affiliates, and I got us set up, and it became very quickly, like, one of our, you know, best performing acquisition channels for Mint Mobile. And I I realized how scalable it was. And then on the other side, I was also looking at our influencer marketing, and I could sort of see these shifts away from macro influencers towards, like, micro nano creators that were, like, potentially more authentic, more engaging, more relatable. But in the world of, like, influencers at that point, it had kind of been like, if you wanna work with an influencer, you've gotta reach out to them Management agency, then you gotta negotiate a rate, and then you gotta do a contract, you know. And so Yeah.

Now, you could sort of see this this sort of, this pattern where it's like, well, if you've got these micro nano creators, you can't. Like, they don't have agencies. You can't you can't necessarily do, like, these big paid deals. Like, that's not scalable, now that you're doing it with a lot more people to achieve the same results. So

Mhmm.

It's I could sort of see, you know, like, LTK was doing it, like to note was doing it, where it was like, okay. So now we're gonna start paying influencers with affiliate. And even in those early days, it was like influencers were using, like, promo codes. And that was kind of just like a way. They weren't getting affiliate commission, but it was a way for brands to see who was actually driving, conversions.

So I could sort of see, like, this whole pattern of, like, affiliate and micro nano creators, and I was like, oh, that's interesting. This kind of, like, could be the business model behind miss Tyler. So I think those things sort of all came together. So, really, it was, yeah, 6 years of pent up entrepreneurial energy, like, 6 years of, like, informally validating. It was, you know, this this this drivers of, like, the, you know, sophistication of affiliate platforms now and, you know, this growing network of people, like, everyday people that were comfortable sharing, you know, content, on on these platforms.

So we already had lots of people doing the right behavior. And then I guess one other part final point was I'd kind of been thinking as well about, like, how would I launch this? Because launching a marketplace, you know, you've got a cold start problem. Like, how do I get creators when I don't have a product? How do I get a product if I don't have creators?

Because creators are the product. And so I've been thinking about that a lot, and I've had this idea that I could use celebrity data as, like, a proxy. So I basically had started googling. And it's interesting that you can Google any celebrity and there's a site that will give you their hips, bust, chest measurements.

Oh, wow.

You can Google their bra size, their height, you know, their hair color, their eye color. You can find their age. So I started just like on my nights, you know, I built this database which ended up being 450 celebrities. And I was, like, focused on tall celebrities, short celebrities, petite celebrities, like, plus size celebrities, curvy celebrities, like, anyone to try and have diversity. And so that was kind of like in my mind.

Just imagine you, like, seeing someone out in real life and being like, oh, look. It's Dustin Hoffman. He you know, he's a 36 waist. It's

like the people that are roasting my wings. Men's wear.

Yeah. Exactly.

But, so yeah. So I've kind of been building that as well. So I was like, this would be like a really cool, like, PR sort of, like, angle. And so that's actually what what we ended up doing is we built an algorithm so that we we launched with a Facebook quiz, and it was basically, like, me and I can't I think it was like Alexa Chung. And so it was, like, a photo of me, a photo of Alexa Chung, and it said, Alexa Chung is my 98% body double celebrity body double.

Who's yours? And it was one ad.

Right.

And I just ran out on Facebook, and you went to this, like, you went off Facebook into this really, like, not very attractive landing page with, like, a sort of a basic quiz and asked for all your personal body data, like your bra size. And then and then you had to put in your email address. And then if you did all of that, you got your, like, celebrity body double. And we had 36,000 women do this quiz at a Oh

my god.

Cost of, like, 10¢ an email, which was insane.

That's unbelievable.

So I think, that was kind of, like, how we got started, and that was enough validation for me to get the first checks. Yeah. And then I used that to essentially build the celebrity body double into an app. So the first version of the app was you just putting your stuff and you found your celebrity body match. And then we sort of built upon that a little bit, but at the same time, we started accepting applications for from creators.

So once people were on this platform, we were like, hey. Do you wanna be a creator on this platform? Like, you know, apply, and you have to apply with 4 outfit posts. And so 6 months later, we had a 180 creators that had posted 4 times. And so

Oh, wow.

6 months later, we we launched creators onto the platform. And then a short time after, we took away the celebrities. And so that was kind of that's kind of how we got there. So I think, yeah, all those different things and the kinda, like, having, like, an idea about, like, how to get started in a sort of a small way to kind of validate and, you know, just start building the building blocks.

I love that. That's so great. And it's, you know, thinking about the the ad itself and getting getting all of the sign ups and having your proof point and then immediately having a, sort of captive audience of of, potential users, and then sort of having a light POC of what you wanted to do with a bit of a gatekeeping for content creators that you didn't have to sort of, like, have everything fleshed out for them. It was a little, like, you know, with the application process, and then you sort of hit critical mass, right, where you had both users and creators Yes. To be able to start matching.

That's that's so great. Then where was that, like, where was that point when you when when you made that switch from taking off the celebrity piece and also sort of starting to let creators, sort of into the program and and interfacing with this title?

So, we launched the we launched the celebrity, just, like, the simple, like, Facebook landing page quiz in, like, I think it was March. We had, like, a very early version. And then by August, we launched the first version of the app. So we moved really fast. And then I think it was February that we launched creators onto the platform.

And then we because we only had a 180 creators versus 4 50 celebrities. So, you know, we were really focused on we really wanted to make sure that we had enough diversity. And so we didn't want somebody to come into the app and be like, nobody looks like me. That's a really bad experience. So at the time, having the blend between celebrities and creators was great because it's, like, essentially, the way it worked is you'd fill in the quiz and you'd essentially get shown all 450 or 600 people in order of relevance.

So the person most likely at the top and you could scroll down to the the least valuable person, least least relevant person. And so when we had, like, the blend, it was like you might have got, like, a celebrity match, then a creator match, creator, celebrity. And so we were sort of nervous about taking away the creators and just, like, having just a 180 people, and we were like, do we have enough diversity? At the time, we were gonna, like we were we were talking about, like, we would only lock unlock or remove celebrities for people that had x number of matches above 70% or whatever else. And we ended up just, like, not doing anything that complicated.

We just, like, made it available. And we were also nervous like, I had a lot of investors saying to me, oh, of course, you've had success because everybody wants to see celebrities, but nobody wants to see a real woman, real women. And I was like, yeah. They do. And when we launched the creators, we started getting all this feedback from people like, how do I skip through the celebrities to find the real people?

You know? That was amazing. Had one. That was really nice and validating. And so when we took out the celebrities, we really never had anyone go, like, where did celebrities go?

It was kind of just like, this is what it is now.

I love one of those moments where in the back of your mind, you're like, you know, The know it all is not right. That's so great. That's such a great a great moment. So that was, in in the year and 4 4 years 9 months. Where was that in that sort of period when you when you took away celebrities completely?

Yeah. So that was it was probably, like, a year after incorporating the business. So, like, we incorporated in March, you know what is it? April, May, June, July, August. Like, 6 months later, we had an app.

6 months later, we added creators. Nice. Probably 3 months later, we took away the celebrities. And so then it was kind of like but, I mean, like, we were when I talk MVP, like, this was so MVP. When we first launched, you couldn't even like a photo.

You couldn't actually interact with anything. Like, you know

We just showed you a photo.

Got your matches, and you couldn't do anything. So we had all these creators that were, like, adding all these posts, but they're like, they have no idea if anyone's looking at them. They have no idea if anyone's liking them. You couldn't comment. So, like, us launching the like button was like a feature about so we're like jamming track.

So so when you think about it, it's like we had creators, and so we did have, like, the app, and it's like, essentially, we delivered what we intended to deliver, but it was really stripped down. It was very, like, you know, very simple. So we we launched yeah. We we we launched the heart button, which was like a big deal. And then it it was a while later that we added the ability to add a comment, you know?

Excellent. Yeah.

So I mean It's a chant. You know, really really I mean, because also we we really didn't have much cash. It's not like we were like, you know, you know, I I never even had, like, you know, the $1,000,000 from Doodad, you know. Like, I was sort of raising off a safe note. Yeah.

And so I kind of got, like, 300,000 Australian, which is, like, 200,000 American, at the beginning. And then sort of like a year later, I raised a little bit more. And so it kind of, like, was, I think I raised, you know, a 1,000,000 Australian, basically, like, within the 1st 12 months. But it took me the whole 12 months to raise that.

Right.

And so it was kind of like, if you think about it as being a bit more drip funding as opposed to, like, when you do, like, a sort of a a bigger round, you can plan out, a little bit more. Like, you you you know that you've got runway. You know that you can actually hire, like, certain people because you you know, whereas, like, if I only had this much money, I couldn't hire people because I I wouldn't know whether I'd be able to pay them in 3 months' time. So

You don't just have to, like, focus on a feature for for a budget. You know? Yeah.

So it really was. Like, we were kind of, like I was constantly fundraising really. Like, I didn't stop. It was kind of, like, just like a a safe note that was open. And so I was sort of building and then constantly, like, raising, and then, you know, it it is hard.

And I'm a sole founder, which is really difficult because fundraising is a very different task to operating. Like, when you're operating I mean, 1, you're sort of, like, you know, scoping out things and and building things, but you're also essentially, like, a problem solver. So what you're essentially focused on day day to day is, like, what is the biggest problem in the business right now that I need to solve for? What is the weakest link? You know?

So you're all you're doing is thinking about, like, the weakest links and all the problems.

And trying to find little glimmers where you've had sort of get ahead of something where you're like, I got half of building a newsletter done today. Like, just a little, like, incremental sort of things while while sort of still still trying to make sure that the that the ship does both part.

But then just, like, to to sort of come back to that point. So, like, if you're focused day to day on the problems, but then when you pitch investors, like, you have to completely pivot because for investors, it's all about what is the opportunity. You know? Right. Like, what are all the amazing things that are going right?

And so it can be really hard, like, when you're going, like, focusing on problems to, like, oh, no. Everything is amazing. And, like, this is so great. And then my back to the problems. Like, that is exhausting.

Yep. No. I totally agree. I'd like there there have been days, and I will say, it it's actually it works out great from an adviser perspective that you're in Australia because when we do our calls later in the day, I don't know if you noticed, but sometimes I get on the call. It's, like, 6:30 or 7 or something like that, and I'm just worn.

And I've had a couple of days where I'm like, I don't wanna, like, work on this thing or whatever it is. But what's amazing is that then I think when you and I get into sort of talking about, like, solving some of these things and and from a sole founder perspective, you know, we've just brought Martina on as a cofounder. But up up, you know, my first sort of 6 months, you're just in those problems. And if you don't talk to anybody about it and you just kinda go to bed, like, you stay in that thing. And I think what's been energizing for me is, you know, where and and where the time zone has sort of benefited is in the end of the day.

You and I start talking about stuff where it's kinda like, oh, this is what it's the feedback we got, and this is the thing we got, and whatever it is. And you and I work through it, and then I've had a couple of times where we hang up and I'm like, yeah. Oh, you know, this is this is what we're gonna go do. And, like and then it's almost like, I wanna go to bed, and I wanna get up early, and I wanna start, like, cranking on stuff. So, it is it's one of the and I actually spoke to somebody today.

I've been passing all of your knowledge along. I actually talked to somebody today who, is offering me an advisory role because I basically have been telling them what you're telling me.

It's a bit of pyramid scheme, and I should get a portion of his.

And then she just has to be an adviser for someone. But, like, but it is one of those that, like, it I think she's in that same role. It's a it's a it's a single founder. And so you just sort of sit with your own sort of hypotheses about. And so I encouraged her, not saying I was gonna do it, but then she said, why don't you do it?

But I was encouraging. I was like, you gotta find somebody, like, I literally I was like, I told her that that you're my, like, matrix buster. I was like, you gotta find somebody who will get you out of your own head and that you can just sort of, like, you can go blah, and they go, okay. Hold on one second. Like, don't worry about that.

Don't worry about that. I've seen that before. Not a big deal. This is the thing you should focus on, and you could do this other thing. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, yeah.

And then sort of, like, the clouds part, and you're like, everything's fine again. So I that's that's one of the biggest parts of of sort of the the adviser.

That definitely. Just being able to process. Like, there's so much going on. Like, if they had to process it. And, again, like, we we spoke about this yesterday.

Again, just back to, like, earlier in this call, like, you know, I'm very good at being resourceful. I kind of probably have a bit more of, like, a a scarcity mindset, which I need to work on. But so for me, it's important for me. And and, you know, it's also it's great being around a lot of founders and, you know, because, you know, everyone, like, you know, will be quite vulnerable and share sort of, like, their challenges, and that can be great. But, also, you kinda need to hang around with the people that are, like, the ballers, that are, like, oh, yeah.

Our head comes up. Like, you know, 29% this year. I'm gonna get, like, a $1,000,000 bonus. Because, like Yeah. You need to remind yourself that there's those things are there.

And and for me, like, David Glickman, you know, he's sort of like, he's very much like a big thinker. Like, so when, you know, I had this time, he was like, oh, you need to get some celebrities on the app. And I was like, well, kinda like the ideas are not even so much about celebrities. It's just about, like, you know, everyday people. And he's like, I know, but imagine if you have, like, Heidi Klum.

And I was like, well, I don't know whether she's, like, totally representative. And he's like, fine. Have Heidi Klum and Oprah and, you know, get, like, 5 celebrities. I'm like, oh my gosh.

This sound like let me just email these people and see if they're interested in it.

I would never think that was possible. I would think, well, I couldn't even get one, but one does also doesn't really do the job. By the way, if I had any one person, it would be like Serena Williams. I think she would be incredible.

Yeah.

So if anyone knows her, just please

Yeah.

But, you know We'll

put out that.

I think it is good to have, like, a balance of people. Like, some people who might be, like, a little bit more, like, rational or, like, you know, what can you control and, like, how can you be, like, resourceful? And then also have these, like, big picture people that can kind of be, like because honestly in startups, the big picture, like, crazy ideas sometimes happen. And when they do, they're incredible.

Totally. I went to a talk, when I was in San Francisco, and Zuckerberg actually was on stage, for the, acquired podcast. It was really cool to see Chase Stadium pretty much, you know, mostly full, for a podcast recording. And Mark talking about the early days, he was like, I'm just driving around San Francisco. And he's like, I had this, like, project that I was doing.

But he's like, I never thought of it as like a business. And he was like, thinking, like, what should I do? And where should I go work or whatever? Like, it's just so interesting to think, you know, of where things can start from and that you kind of have this, like, college connection group community, and you just don't think of that as now the, I don't know what they are. You know, it's a 100,000,000,000 plus, you know, and so yeah.

You you never know. And I I think it does also help to sort of bust you out of those. I can't get the the website's not working and somebody did a support ticket and you're in the and in the muck and mire of it is also to to balance that with being able to also have people who are sort of like, wait. Wait. Wait.

This could be, like, multi, multi billies. Whatever it is, and they're like, oh, yeah. And it just it's whatever it is that takes you wherever you are and just can pull you all the way to the other side. So you almost counterbalance in a much better, more centric, objective place than, like, staying in the optimistic or pessimistic too much.

Yeah. Actually, one thing that we did and, like, coming back to your, like, 0 to to, you know Mhmm. We, which we we stopped doing, but we, we had, like, a tab. Like, we have, like, this, like, Google Sheets that's kind of, like, all our stuff on it. And we have, like, a tab for hits and a a tab for misses.

And so, like, when something goes wrong, like, oh, when we first launched our customer support, it wasn't connected. So people would email us, and we were responding to them. But for, like, 3 months, nobody ever got a response from us. Like, so we were sending these things, but it was not connected. I mean, like, that's a pretty big miss.

Like

but No one ever writes back.

I guess we solved their problem. That was all in wicked shop. And then on the hits tab, you'd have things like we get we had this, like, amazing you know, we at the very beginning, we had this article in, like, BuzzFeed, and we got, like, 5,000 downloads from that one thing. Or it's like the fur you know, the day that we launch creators onto the app or the day that we launch the app or it gets approved by the App Store or Google Play or whatever. So you have, like, this, like, this, like, running list of, like, hits.

And Mhmm. And these hits at the time feel massive. You know, like, they these feel like

Yep.

0 to arm. Like, each one of them is like a is an arm. And then the hits kind of, you know, I guess, they feel really big and detrimental at the time. But when you look back at it, you're like, oh my god. Imagine back then we were excited by that.

Look at how far we've come. Because sometimes it happens so fast that you kinda feel like you haven't got anywhere. It feels like you haven't made much progress. But then you look back at this and you're like, it was only 3 months ago that we were so excited by that.

Totally. A week can be can be just like, I've caught up with somebody a week ago. I caught up with somebody, you know, 2 weeks ago when I was in when I was at, at Tech Week, and we caught up again today. And they started sort of saying, okay. I've got some ideas for you.

And I was like, you've got it. Hold on just a second. Let me catch you up to all the things that has happened in the last 2 weeks. And it was just like mind blown emoji. There's like, okay.

Great. This is a good baseline. Now let's talk about but, yeah, things move so fast that,

So I think, yeah, recording that stuff is great because it's you do forget it. So, like, having just, like, a little, like I I would suggest this for any entrepreneur, have it, like, littles have. And every time something really amazing happens, write it down. Anytime something bad happens, write it down. You can go back and reflect on that at the end of the quarter and just be like so we would do that.

At the

end of the quarter, I would read back and be like, this is the the lifeline of things that happened this quarter, and you can just hear it building and, like, that's really incredible. And you're like

Yeah.

And but again, the missus, you're like, oh, you know, look how much we've navigated through, you know.

Yeah. Totally. We're actually, Martina and I are starting a a second podcast, called Building Stack List. And, essentially, it's that it's, like, trying to record as much of that stuff. I had one where, I was completely I didn't even know it, but I was completely a 100%, You know, when your when your battery shuts off and you put the power thing and it just shows the battery icon and it's, like, not gonna do anything.

I I was that way last Friday. And I woke up on Saturday and I felt fluy. And I went back to bed, and I slept for 3 hours. I got up and had some lunch. I went back to bed for 3 hours.

I got up a little bit and sort of hung out with the fam for a little bit. Went back to bed and slept like 13 hours, And then did it again on Sunday. And then by Monday, I was like, I was reset again. But on that Sunday night, I sat down and just did like a 20 minute just like this. I was like, okay.

Here's where I'm at. You know what I mean? Like, I just completely warned, but also now I'm on the other side of it, and I'm feeling optimistic about stuff and and things like that. Because I wanna I've I have heard from other other founders too that, like, they wish they had kinda document the the process or at least had, like, ways to sort of go back to some of those those early feelings.

It is it is a roller coaster, like startups. It's like an emotional roller coaster. So yeah.

Who who's your who's your who's your you for me? Yeah. No. Wait. Did I who's your who's your the branches that you hold on to or that, like or help you be a trampoline to jump higher?

Definitely. Like, one of the best things that came out of going through the Antler program was that I was starting my business alongside 13 other businesses that got funded at the same time.

Oh, yeah.

And so even, like you know, when you're going through things and it's like I mean, you can't be an expert in everything when you're starting. It's like you know, so when I started, I'd never heard of, like, a safe note before or, like, you know, always things that, you know, I'm sort of passing on to you is because we all have to learn them for the very first time, possibly. Right. But then if you've got 13 companies going through it, it doesn't matter if they their business model is completely different. They still have to set up their company.

They still have to raise money. They still have to do this. Like, they've you know? So so yeah. I think, that community has been incredible, and we have all been very transparent.

And I think also what happens is, like, I mean, we've been doing this for, like, nearly 5 years now. 5 years is a long time. Within 5 years Yeah. Yeah. You'll go through burnout.

You just Yeah. That's so good.

I remember turning up to events and people were like, how are you doing? I was like, I'm not great. Damn. I'm normally like a happy, like, you know, positive person. I would just be like, no.

I'm actually, like, not great. Like, I'm actually, like, totally burnt out and, like, you know, my life isn't great at the moment. Like, why am I working? You know, why why is it so hard? So I think, you know, having those people that you can turn to and just be you know, like, can jump on a quick call, or like we do with a bunch of different people.

Like, I'll do, like, a monthly, like, 1 night. And it's just like you you can just, like, talk really openly and go through sort of your highs and lows and process those with the other people, but you sort of you're always there to support each other. Yeah. Everybody's everybody's your biggest cheerleader as well. Nice.

That's great.

Well and it's it's good to have those so that you can you know, it's it's getting out of the out of the day to day and and rebalancing again. What so what's the well, when you hit 5 years, is that 1? Did you hit 1? Yeah. From 0 to 1?

I don't know. Maybe hit 1, you know, 1. Maybe when I hit 1,000,000,000.

There you go. Alright. You set your 1. The bar is set. No.

What's what's what's next for, like, what do you see for for, you know, the next 5 years of this title? Like, what do you where do you see the focus and the drive?

First of all, it's so crazy to think, because, like, 5 years is a long time. It it sounds like it's not a start like, it it doesn't sound like a baby start up anymore. It's, like, 5 years old. It's, like, kinda mature. But I still feel like so so early stage.

But, you know, really, it's try trying to get us to the next level, you know, trying to get us, you know, to profitability, trying to get us to, you know, a much bigger scale. Really, at the at the I guess, the biggest thing is at the moment, the business is not self sufficient, So it's not sustainable. Mhmm. Which means that it needs funding. So I wanna get to a point where, you know, it is sustainable.

Not just for the business, but for me as well.

Right. Yeah. Totally.

Well, I, I had this, I went to, a lunch with some people, in America, and, they were saying to me, oh, you know, so you're based in Australia? I was like, yes. But I think we're gonna move to America next year. And this this woman said, oh, you and your husband? I said, no.

Me and the business.

That's why I was like, that's great.

So yeah.

Where to New York?

Yeah. I love New York.

Oh, it's like my And we would get too close, we'd be on the same time zone. Yeah. Well, that'd be amazing. Do you so you think you're gonna do that in the next little bit?

I I think, you know, if I don't move there, I'll definitely I mean, I still get to the US, like, a few times a year. I would like to spend more time there. So if if I don't move there, it'll be I'll be spending a lot longer there. Also, you know, we're we're an Australian company. A lot of US investors, like, wanna invest in a Delaware Secorp.

So at some point, with our next raise, we might be required to to flip up to a Delaware Secorp. If an investor says to me, I'll give you a $100,000,000 that you need to move to New York. Okay. I'll be Oh,

I already booked my ticket. I'll see you next Tuesday. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

That's great. Well, that's so fun. Well, thank you for this. I I love the I love going from pre pre miss Tyler all the way through and and and sort of what the future might be. So thank you so much for all the all the early stories.

You're welcome, and and, we'll continue it next week.

Yeah. Exactly. And thanks for being my red pillar.

Uh-huh. You're you're welcome.