Rukayatu ("Ruky") Tijani - Firm for the Culture

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Yeah, that was fun.

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Hi Kyle.

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Hi, it's you.

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How you doing?

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I am doing okay.

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I have my dog like chilling

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here with me.

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I don't know if you've met my

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little pup.

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No.

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You want to see him?

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Come here.

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Yeah.

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Come here, Casper.

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Oh, hello.

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Yeah, so I work home a lot.

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How are you?

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Jasper.

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Casper.

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Is that right?

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Casper.

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Yeah.

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Casper, you gonna kick this

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episode off for us?

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If you give me a treat.

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Right, that part.

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Alright, you can go back down

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now.

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Thank you.

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How are you doing?

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I'm doing alright.

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I'm a little sleepy today.

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Me too.

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I don't know what it is.

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Maybe it's the energy or I

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came back from, I was in Tech

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Week all week in San Fran and

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that one wore me out a little

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bit.

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I came back and I slept 12

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hours the first night that I

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was home.

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Yeah.

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And then I was great

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yesterday and I was like, I

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was so much energy and then I

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don't know, maybe all my

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energy got used up yesterday.

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No, I hear you.

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I hear you.

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I, so it's San Francisco.

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Oh yeah, you were okay.

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You were in San Francisco for

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Tech Week.

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I did San Francisco Tech Week

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as well.

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I went to a few events.

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and I think just like, as

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much as I love people

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interacting with so much

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energy can definitely wear me

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out.

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So I think that like, if your

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Tech Week was anything like

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mine, then, you know, give

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yourself grace.

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I'm an introverted heart that

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I'm an introverted heart that

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has taught himself to be

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extroverted and I do like

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being out and about and, and,

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you know, interacting with

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people, but I also, Ooh,

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just, it saps me sometimes.

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And then obviously a week of,

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of doing that and, you know,

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had investor meetings and

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partner meetings and I flew

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to New York and we had a

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Stacklist on Times Square

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and that was fun.

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I saw that.

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I saw that.

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Congratulations.

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Yeah it was fun.

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But yeah, I just, Oh, I think

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it just, it just ate me.

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Now I just need to sit and, I

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don't know, restart Ozark

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from scratch and watch it all

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and eat some popcorn and get

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my brain back.

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I don't know what you mean.

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Yeah, no, I hear you.

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It's interesting because like

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in moments where our energy

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feels zapped, it's like, it's

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so easy to like, wanna get

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mad at ourselves and be like,

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I need to be productive, I

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need to do this.

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But we are, and I'm saying

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this to you as I'm saying it

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to myself, we are being

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productive by virtue of like,

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sitting and getting our

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energy back.

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So I do hope that you are

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able to take some time to

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just recharge.

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Yeah, I will.

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I'm definitely gonna

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recharge.

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Well, thank you for joining

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today.

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I'm excited to hear the early

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stories of, so you and I met,

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I was referred to you by Kyle

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Westaway, who is our general

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counsel.

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And as we first started

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working on general counsel

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stuff together, we started

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talking about trademark and

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figuring out names.

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And that's where it was like,

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oh, I've got somebody you

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gotta talk to.

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And so you and I were

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connected and yeah, it's been

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fun.

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And I think I've enjoyed the

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process of learning about how

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to think about IP and

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trademark.

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So I'd love to get into Firm

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for the Culture at some

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point, but also maybe before

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that, it's just backing up to

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the early beginnings of your

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entrepreneurial, maybe out of

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school or where it sort of

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started when you started.

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Did you come out of school

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going into doing your own

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thing or did you come out of

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school sort of working

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somewhere?

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Yeah, are we already started?

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Okay, I just wanna make sure.

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Well, first of all, I wanna

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start off by just saying,

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Kyle, it's been such a great

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journey with you.

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I love how you're so eager to

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learn and I love our

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conversations because our

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conversations almost always,

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like they start off with like

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me giving you trademark

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updates and all that great

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stuff, but they always,

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without exception, always

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kind of flow into just life

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and entrepreneurship and just

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the challenges that we face

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and are overcoming.

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So when I heard about your

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podcast, I knew that this was

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gonna be another great

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opportunity for a great

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conversation.

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Now, in terms of my journey,

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the reason why Kyle Westaway

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and I connected is because

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I'm originally from Brooklyn,

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New York, born and raised in

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Brooklyn, New York, first

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generation, everything.

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And then I graduated from UC

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Berkeley School of Law.

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And after I graduated, I

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didn't go into full-time

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entrepreneurship.

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I wasn't even thinking about

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full-time entrepreneurship.

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I was just trying to figure

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out how to survive as a

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first-gen everything.

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So I came back to New York.

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I worked on Wall Street,

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essentially doing securities

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work and securities

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litigation.

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And I hated it.

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And I hated it for so- That's

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fun, it's fun to find.

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It's not a fun in the moment,

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but it's fun to find things

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that you definitely don't

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like.

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Yeah, and it wasn't

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necessarily the subject

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matter, so to speak.

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I thought it was quite

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interesting.

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It was coming back to New

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York an entirely, completely

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different person than when I

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left New York and not really

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being able to reconcile those

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somewhat conflicting

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identities.

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Like I left New York a girl

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from the projects of

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Brooklyn, New York.

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Like I left kind of being in

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certain parts of the city and

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not necessarily having access

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to others.

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And then I came back with

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brand shiny new degree, New

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York State Bar licensed,

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talking to folks who thought

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it was a steal that they got

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shoes for like $350.

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And it was just like a

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real...

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And my past still existed in

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New York.

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My mom still lived where I

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grew up.

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Many people still grew up in

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my neighborhood.

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They were still there.

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So it was really a tough

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journey working to reconcile

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what seemed to be very

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conflicting and somewhat

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vacillating identities.

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So, and also at the same

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time, coming from Berkeley

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where it's very crunchy, part

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of our...

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Yeah.

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Part of our uniform is pretty

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much Birkenstocks and

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Ray-Bans.

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From Birkenstocks to Wall

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Street?

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Yeah, like exactly, exactly.

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Like part of our uniform is

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Birkenstocks, Ray-Bans.

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maybe some shorts and like a

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really cool, like, you know,

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Berkeley law sweatshirt.

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So coming from, you know,

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pretty much 60 to 70 degree

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weather all the time to going

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back to New York in the midst

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of what was considered one of

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the coldest winters in their

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recent history, the polar

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vortex and not being able to

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go outside as per at the time

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Mayor de Blasio's

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instructions.

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Like, I don't know if you

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remember that time or if you,

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it was brutal.

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And I remember just thinking,

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I don't wanna be here back in

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New York.

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So it was definitely a tough

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first year after graduating

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from Berkeley and not really

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knowing the unwritten rules

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of the spaces I was

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navigating and the politics

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of corporate America just

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made it a really tough year.

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So after that, I did go back

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to California for a federal

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clerkship.

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And a federal clerkship for

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the audience is a really

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fancy way of saying I was a

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ghostwriter for an Obama

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appointed federal judge,

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which in the legal field is

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quite prestigious.

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So did that for a couple of

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years.

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Then after that went to the

295
00:09:05,875 --> 00:09:08,250
Silicon Valley and worked at

296
00:09:08,250 --> 00:09:09,875
the top litigation firm in

297
00:09:09,875 --> 00:09:11,541
the country doing trademarks,

298
00:09:11,666 --> 00:09:12,791
patents, copyrights, trade

299
00:09:12,791 --> 00:09:13,208
secrets.

300
00:09:13,791 --> 00:09:14,916
And then it was after all of

301
00:09:14,916 --> 00:09:16,291
that that I then decided,

302
00:09:16,291 --> 00:09:17,166
okay, I kinda wanna try my

303
00:09:17,166 --> 00:09:18,625
okay, I kinda wanna try my

304
00:09:18,625 --> 00:09:19,875
hand at entrepreneurship.

305
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:20,583
Because when you're in a

306
00:09:20,583 --> 00:09:21,541
place like Silicon Valley,

307
00:09:22,125 --> 00:09:23,625
it's so easy to get the bug.

308
00:09:24,625 --> 00:09:25,583
It's so easy.

309
00:09:25,833 --> 00:09:26,083
Exactly.

310
00:09:26,458 --> 00:09:27,541
And that's where you really

311
00:09:27,541 --> 00:09:29,041
cut your teeth in and I would

312
00:09:29,041 --> 00:09:30,791
imagine found that passion

313
00:09:30,791 --> 00:09:32,166
for trademark and IP, right?

314
00:09:32,375 --> 00:09:33,416
Yeah, absolutely.

315
00:09:34,708 --> 00:09:36,083
Because there was so much

316
00:09:36,083 --> 00:09:37,666
creativity in that space.

317
00:09:37,791 --> 00:09:39,666
Like I was less than 15

318
00:09:39,666 --> 00:09:41,291
minutes away from Facebook.

319
00:09:41,583 --> 00:09:43,791
I lived less than three

320
00:09:43,791 --> 00:09:44,958
minutes away from Visa.

321
00:09:45,291 --> 00:09:47,666
I was surrounded by

322
00:09:47,666 --> 00:09:48,291
innovation.

323
00:09:48,875 --> 00:09:50,166
But at the same time, I was

324
00:09:50,166 --> 00:09:51,666
consistently hearing stories

325
00:09:51,666 --> 00:09:55,583
of founders who got their

326
00:09:55,583 --> 00:09:56,750
intellectual property stolen

327
00:09:56,750 --> 00:09:59,458
and they didn't really know

328
00:09:59,458 --> 00:10:00,500
what they didn't know about

329
00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:01,791
the value of their IP.

330
00:10:02,625 --> 00:10:04,125
And oftentimes they didn't

331
00:10:04,125 --> 00:10:05,458
look like the faces of the

332
00:10:05,458 --> 00:10:06,750
founders in the Silicon

333
00:10:06,750 --> 00:10:07,083
Valley.

334
00:10:07,208 --> 00:10:09,083
They didn't look like Mark

335
00:10:09,083 --> 00:10:10,458
Zuckerberg or they didn't

336
00:10:10,458 --> 00:10:13,125
look like Elon Musk, so to

337
00:10:13,125 --> 00:10:13,416
speak.

338
00:10:14,083 --> 00:10:16,708
And because they weren't

339
00:10:16,708 --> 00:10:17,791
billion dollar unicorn

340
00:10:17,791 --> 00:10:20,500
companies, stories around

341
00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:21,500
their intellectual property

342
00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:23,041
were virtually non-existent.

343
00:10:23,583 --> 00:10:27,750
If not like just like

344
00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:31,541
downgraded or not considered

345
00:10:31,541 --> 00:10:32,166
valuable.

346
00:10:32,833 --> 00:10:35,291
So I knew that at the

347
00:10:35,291 --> 00:10:37,041
billable hourly rate that I

348
00:10:37,041 --> 00:10:39,666
was being charged out as like

349
00:10:39,666 --> 00:10:41,166
$700 an hour, I couldn't even

350
00:10:41,166 --> 00:10:42,208
afford myself, frankly.

351
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,041
I knew that I wanted to make

352
00:10:45,041 --> 00:10:47,625
IP law a little bit more

353
00:10:47,625 --> 00:10:49,958
accessible, a little bit less

354
00:10:49,958 --> 00:10:52,666
esoteric, a lot less

355
00:10:52,666 --> 00:10:54,666
intimidating, which is why I

356
00:10:54,666 --> 00:10:55,791
started Firm for the Culture.

357
00:10:56,666 --> 00:10:56,791
Yeah.

358
00:10:57,583 --> 00:10:59,583
Well, and you've done an

359
00:10:59,583 --> 00:11:00,958
amazing process, I think, of

360
00:11:00,958 --> 00:11:04,416
doing, of building the brand

361
00:11:04,416 --> 00:11:06,041
and the company, but also the

362
00:11:06,041 --> 00:11:06,458
workflow.

363
00:11:06,916 --> 00:11:09,208
It's so easy and

364
00:11:09,208 --> 00:11:11,916
straightforward to, and

365
00:11:11,916 --> 00:11:13,041
you've done all the

366
00:11:13,041 --> 00:11:14,000
automation and the workflow

367
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,958
processes of from the first

368
00:11:17,958 --> 00:11:21,041
call to getting kicked off

369
00:11:21,041 --> 00:11:21,916
and answering all the

370
00:11:21,916 --> 00:11:24,458
questions and then having the

371
00:11:24,458 --> 00:11:25,708
initial search and talking

372
00:11:25,708 --> 00:11:26,541
about the search results.

373
00:11:26,750 --> 00:11:30,416
Like it's not something, I

374
00:11:30,416 --> 00:11:32,083
will say conversely, I also,

375
00:11:32,458 --> 00:11:35,333
I did start a process with

376
00:11:35,333 --> 00:11:38,083
someone around patent and it

377
00:11:38,083 --> 00:11:39,250
was much more broad.

378
00:11:39,333 --> 00:11:41,541
Like here's a five-page Word

379
00:11:41,541 --> 00:11:41,916
document.

380
00:11:41,916 --> 00:11:43,125
If you can just fill all this

381
00:11:43,125 --> 00:11:45,041
out, that would be great.

382
00:11:45,416 --> 00:11:47,500
And I think I put it off

383
00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:48,083
forever.

384
00:11:48,416 --> 00:11:49,666
Like I just didn't, I didn't

385
00:11:49,666 --> 00:11:50,833
have time and I just, I don't

386
00:11:50,833 --> 00:11:51,166
have time and I just, I don't

387
00:11:51,166 --> 00:11:51,916
really know.

388
00:11:52,083 --> 00:11:54,166
But your sort of guided coach

389
00:11:54,166 --> 00:11:56,291
process has been great.

390
00:11:56,791 --> 00:12:00,125
And we worked through an

391
00:12:00,125 --> 00:12:01,458
initial, we thought we were

392
00:12:01,458 --> 00:12:02,708
gonna be one thing, but now

393
00:12:02,708 --> 00:12:04,000
we're another thing, so,

394
00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:05,750
which is fun.

395
00:12:06,291 --> 00:12:07,333
I mean, and that's the

396
00:12:07,333 --> 00:12:08,208
importance of really

397
00:12:08,208 --> 00:12:09,291
understanding your ideal

398
00:12:09,291 --> 00:12:10,708
client avatar, right?

399
00:12:11,375 --> 00:12:14,833
Because when I started Firm

400
00:12:14,833 --> 00:12:16,166
of the Culture, I knew that I

401
00:12:16,166 --> 00:12:20,541
was going to really have the

402
00:12:20,541 --> 00:12:22,208
privilege of supporting busy

403
00:12:22,208 --> 00:12:24,250
entrepreneurs, many of whom

404
00:12:24,250 --> 00:12:26,333
may have a ton of different

405
00:12:26,333 --> 00:12:29,500
endeavors and passions and

406
00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:30,291
are super busy.

407
00:12:31,041 --> 00:12:35,791
So part of how I structured

408
00:12:35,791 --> 00:12:37,166
the workflow or the

409
00:12:37,166 --> 00:12:39,583
experience was, and this is

410
00:12:39,583 --> 00:12:40,708
like, I think emblematic of

411
00:12:40,708 --> 00:12:41,500
this statement in the

412
00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:43,333
beginning, I wanted you to be

413
00:12:43,333 --> 00:12:44,916
able to look at and sign a

414
00:12:44,916 --> 00:12:46,041
contract from your phone.

415
00:12:46,541 --> 00:12:47,791
I wanted you to be able.

416
00:12:47,791 --> 00:12:49,208
able to book a call from your

417
00:12:49,208 --> 00:12:50,666
phone, I wanted you to be

418
00:12:50,666 --> 00:12:52,541
able to text me, I wanted you

419
00:12:52,541 --> 00:12:54,416
to be able to have a level of

420
00:12:54,416 --> 00:12:56,541
access that traditional law

421
00:12:56,541 --> 00:12:58,916
firms kind of put their noses

422
00:12:58,916 --> 00:12:59,625
up at.

423
00:12:59,916 --> 00:13:04,666
Because I knew that you were

424
00:13:04,666 --> 00:13:06,916
doing TED Talks and founders

425
00:13:06,916 --> 00:13:09,041
were on Good Morning America

426
00:13:09,041 --> 00:13:10,666
or founders were coming up

427
00:13:10,666 --> 00:13:14,083
with ideas that it may have

428
00:13:14,083 --> 00:13:15,083
forgotten if they didn't

429
00:13:15,083 --> 00:13:16,166
write down immediately.

430
00:13:16,916 --> 00:13:18,625
So our workflows and our

431
00:13:18,625 --> 00:13:20,166
automations, sometimes it can

432
00:13:20,166 --> 00:13:21,291
go a little overboard, like

433
00:13:21,291 --> 00:13:22,291
you might get like 15

434
00:13:22,291 --> 00:13:23,416
different reminders for like

435
00:13:23,416 --> 00:13:24,208
the same event.

436
00:13:27,208 --> 00:13:29,625
But it's trial and error.

437
00:13:29,791 --> 00:13:31,833
And I think because our

438
00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:32,916
automations are so

439
00:13:32,916 --> 00:13:34,125
streamlined, or at least I

440
00:13:34,125 --> 00:13:35,583
work to make them really

441
00:13:35,583 --> 00:13:38,083
streamlined, our missed calls

442
00:13:38,083 --> 00:13:39,500
go down significantly.

443
00:13:40,541 --> 00:13:43,333
It takes people maybe 30 to

444
00:13:43,333 --> 00:13:44,958
40 seconds to sign a

445
00:13:44,958 --> 00:13:45,750
contract.

446
00:13:47,333 --> 00:13:50,333
And they are oftentimes

447
00:13:50,333 --> 00:13:52,833
getting through the forms

448
00:13:52,833 --> 00:13:54,041
that we send them pretty

449
00:13:54,041 --> 00:13:54,625
proactively.

450
00:13:54,791 --> 00:13:56,791
And part of it is also, I

451
00:13:56,791 --> 00:13:58,000
didn't want to make our

452
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,083
automations, for lack of a

453
00:14:00,083 --> 00:14:01,625
better term, so automated

454
00:14:01,625 --> 00:14:03,333
that people felt like they

455
00:14:03,333 --> 00:14:04,541
were being pushed through a

456
00:14:04,541 --> 00:14:05,291
simple automation.

457
00:14:06,541 --> 00:14:07,375
And this is why it was so

458
00:14:07,375 --> 00:14:09,291
important for me to also

459
00:14:09,291 --> 00:14:13,208
bring in FaceTime, bring in

460
00:14:13,208 --> 00:14:16,500
those moments where you were

461
00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:17,291
going to get the reminders

462
00:14:17,291 --> 00:14:18,791
from a meeting, but still

463
00:14:18,791 --> 00:14:21,958
have a meeting with you to

464
00:14:21,958 --> 00:14:24,500
have questions answered, to

465
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:25,750
encourage you to say, hey,

466
00:14:25,791 --> 00:14:26,541
you know, you can really

467
00:14:26,541 --> 00:14:28,208
answer these questions or to

468
00:14:28,208 --> 00:14:29,333
say, hey, this might be a

469
00:14:29,333 --> 00:14:29,833
tough one.

470
00:14:29,916 --> 00:14:31,791
So, you know, take some time

471
00:14:31,791 --> 00:14:33,416
to answer this, but let's

472
00:14:33,416 --> 00:14:35,666
also bookend the completing

473
00:14:35,666 --> 00:14:36,791
of this form or the

474
00:14:36,791 --> 00:14:38,125
completion of this form with

475
00:14:38,125 --> 00:14:39,500
another meeting so I can have

476
00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:41,291
these check-ins with you, all

477
00:14:41,291 --> 00:14:42,625
for no additional cost,

478
00:14:43,083 --> 00:14:44,416
because we also wanted to

479
00:14:44,416 --> 00:14:45,375
make sure that you didn't

480
00:14:45,375 --> 00:14:46,375
feel like checking in with us

481
00:14:46,375 --> 00:14:47,458
feel like checking in with us

482
00:14:47,458 --> 00:14:50,291
was going to make this

483
00:14:50,291 --> 00:14:52,875
process one that was

484
00:14:52,875 --> 00:14:54,041
significantly beyond your

485
00:14:54,041 --> 00:14:54,791
budget as well.

486
00:14:55,791 --> 00:14:55,916
Right.

487
00:14:56,750 --> 00:14:58,208
Take me back to the early,

488
00:14:58,416 --> 00:15:00,750
like, so were you at, were

489
00:15:00,750 --> 00:15:01,833
you working in Silicon Valley

490
00:15:01,833 --> 00:15:03,583
and in trademark and IP, and

491
00:15:03,583 --> 00:15:06,250
when did you have that, do

492
00:15:06,250 --> 00:15:07,291
you remember the time and the

493
00:15:07,291 --> 00:15:08,791
period when you had that sort

494
00:15:08,791 --> 00:15:10,125
of feeling and you started

495
00:15:10,125 --> 00:15:12,250
to, like, explore what it

496
00:15:12,250 --> 00:15:13,708
would look like to be on your

497
00:15:13,708 --> 00:15:14,000
own?

498
00:15:14,166 --> 00:15:15,666
What did that sort of period

499
00:15:15,666 --> 00:15:16,208
look like?

500
00:15:16,708 --> 00:15:17,666
It was a period where I

501
00:15:17,666 --> 00:15:18,708
really felt like I was going

502
00:15:18,708 --> 00:15:19,708
crazy and destroying my

503
00:15:19,708 --> 00:15:20,041
career.

504
00:15:22,916 --> 00:15:24,083
Because you were trying to do

505
00:15:24,083 --> 00:15:25,375
both or like, what was that?

506
00:15:25,416 --> 00:15:26,291
Oh, no, no, no, not trying to

507
00:15:26,291 --> 00:15:26,708
do both.

508
00:15:26,708 --> 00:15:29,083
Ethically, you know, I didn't

509
00:15:29,083 --> 00:15:30,875
want to hear, I didn't want

510
00:15:30,875 --> 00:15:32,708
to, like, kind of get the

511
00:15:32,708 --> 00:15:35,708
censure, the sanctioning,

512
00:15:35,833 --> 00:15:37,458
sanctioning meaning, like,

513
00:15:37,583 --> 00:15:38,500
you know, hit on the hand,

514
00:15:38,666 --> 00:15:39,708
not sanctioning, allowing.

515
00:15:40,583 --> 00:15:42,416
I didn't want to get censured

516
00:15:42,416 --> 00:15:45,375
or ridiculed by my bosses and

517
00:15:45,375 --> 00:15:47,583
powers that be, because as a

518
00:15:47,583 --> 00:15:50,083
law firm, what, like, we

519
00:15:50,083 --> 00:15:51,250
weren't really allowed to do

520
00:15:51,250 --> 00:15:52,375
legal side hustles.

521
00:15:52,958 --> 00:15:54,833
So it wasn't a matter of,

522
00:15:55,166 --> 00:15:56,625
like, can I do this on the

523
00:15:56,625 --> 00:15:56,833
side?

524
00:15:56,875 --> 00:15:57,958
It was a matter of, like, I

525
00:15:57,958 --> 00:16:00,791
need to quit my job if I'm

526
00:16:00,791 --> 00:16:01,791
going to be providing

527
00:16:01,791 --> 00:16:03,291
services to others.

528
00:16:04,083 --> 00:16:05,791
So that was a real, yeah, so

529
00:16:05,791 --> 00:16:06,833
that was a real tough

530
00:16:06,833 --> 00:16:07,291
decision.

531
00:16:08,041 --> 00:16:10,083
But going even back further,

532
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,125
it was around, I would say,

533
00:16:13,208 --> 00:16:16,000
August or July of 2019.

534
00:16:16,333 --> 00:16:18,333
So every year, the law firm

535
00:16:18,333 --> 00:16:20,750
that I was a part of, it

536
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:22,000
sounds very fancy and very

537
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,541
posh, the head of the law

538
00:16:24,541 --> 00:16:27,041
firm, he's an avid hiker.

539
00:16:27,541 --> 00:16:31,208
So he brings a bunch of us on

540
00:16:31,208 --> 00:16:33,750
a trip, all expenses paid, to

541
00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:35,250
a part of the world where we

542
00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:35,583
hike.

543
00:16:36,333 --> 00:16:38,000
So through that, through

544
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,333
those opportunities, I've

545
00:16:39,333 --> 00:16:41,458
been to Japan, I've been to

546
00:16:41,458 --> 00:16:43,333
Greece, I've been to

547
00:16:43,333 --> 00:16:47,458
Switzerland, and it's been an

548
00:16:47,458 --> 00:16:48,291
amazing journey.

549
00:16:48,541 --> 00:16:50,125
So the last trip to

550
00:16:50,125 --> 00:16:53,333
Switzerland, I decided, okay,

551
00:16:53,375 --> 00:16:54,166
I'm going to make this a

552
00:16:54,166 --> 00:16:55,208
little bit of a Euro trip.

553
00:16:55,291 --> 00:16:57,125
So I'm going to go to Prague,

554
00:16:57,166 --> 00:16:59,000
and then I'm going to go to

555
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,583
the UK, because I have some

556
00:17:01,583 --> 00:17:03,916
family in London.

557
00:17:05,458 --> 00:17:08,166
And I had, you know, done all

558
00:17:08,166 --> 00:17:10,333
my work in advance, I had

559
00:17:10,333 --> 00:17:12,916
told everyone I was going to

560
00:17:12,916 --> 00:17:14,750
be out of the office, I had,

561
00:17:14,916 --> 00:17:17,833
you know, delegated all my

562
00:17:17,833 --> 00:17:18,583
work properly.

563
00:17:19,375 --> 00:17:22,458
But my colleagues didn't

564
00:17:22,458 --> 00:17:25,416
necessarily care about that.

565
00:17:26,125 --> 00:17:28,458
And I remember- They thought

566
00:17:28,458 --> 00:17:29,791
you should have been doing

567
00:17:29,791 --> 00:17:31,333
more, even though you were

568
00:17:31,333 --> 00:17:31,416
ahead?

569
00:17:31,458 --> 00:17:32,041
Yeah, they thought I should

570
00:17:32,041 --> 00:17:33,125
have been doing more work.

571
00:17:34,250 --> 00:17:37,750
I think it was real, and I

572
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:39,458
get it, like, we work in big

573
00:17:39,458 --> 00:17:41,000
law, like, you know, the

574
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,000
hours are known to be brutal,

575
00:17:43,291 --> 00:17:44,708
but it just, I think it felt

576
00:17:44,708 --> 00:17:47,416
like there wasn't even...

577
00:17:47,791 --> 00:17:51,916
any regard of my, of

578
00:17:51,916 --> 00:17:52,791
my away message.

579
00:17:52,958 --> 00:17:54,708
Like they would, they would

580
00:17:54,708 --> 00:17:55,666
email me, they would get my

581
00:17:55,666 --> 00:17:56,083
way mesh.

582
00:17:56,166 --> 00:17:56,958
They're like, yeah, whatever.

583
00:17:57,083 --> 00:17:59,791
I need this by like X, Y, Z.

584
00:18:00,166 --> 00:18:00,666
Oh, wow.

585
00:18:01,041 --> 00:18:01,416
Yeah.

586
00:18:01,958 --> 00:18:03,833
I need this by X, Y, Z.

587
00:18:04,291 --> 00:18:05,791
And with that, there was, but

588
00:18:05,791 --> 00:18:06,708
so much that I can do.

589
00:18:06,833 --> 00:18:09,666
So, you know, while, I

590
00:18:09,666 --> 00:18:12,500
did get a chance to travel my

591
00:18:12,500 --> 00:18:15,166
travels from, from my memory

592
00:18:15,541 --> 00:18:19,083
are really just, it, it,

593
00:18:19,083 --> 00:18:20,958
it, it's just encapsulated by

594
00:18:20,958 --> 00:18:23,916
me going to cafes and little

595
00:18:23,916 --> 00:18:25,916
shops, borrowing myself in a

596
00:18:25,916 --> 00:18:28,166
corner and trying to figure

597
00:18:28,166 --> 00:18:29,458
out the wifi in order to get

598
00:18:29,458 --> 00:18:30,916
work done for like eight or

599
00:18:30,916 --> 00:18:32,166
10 hours per day.

600
00:18:32,291 --> 00:18:33,750
So I didn't really get to

601
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:36,000
have that vacation.

602
00:18:36,166 --> 00:18:37,416
I didn't really get, I didn't

603
00:18:37,416 --> 00:18:38,375
really get to rest.

604
00:18:38,541 --> 00:18:39,833
I didn't really get to rest.

605
00:18:40,083 --> 00:18:41,166
And then on top of that,

606
00:18:41,916 --> 00:18:42,833
considering that I was in

607
00:18:42,833 --> 00:18:45,708
Europe and, a lot of our

608
00:18:45,708 --> 00:18:46,916
meetings were in Pacific

609
00:18:46,916 --> 00:18:48,625
standard time, I was getting

610
00:18:48,625 --> 00:18:49,791
up at like two, three o'clock

611
00:18:49,791 --> 00:18:51,083
in the morning to have

612
00:18:51,083 --> 00:18:52,708
meetings that were, you know,

613
00:18:52,750 --> 00:18:54,291
being run in the afternoon

614
00:18:54,291 --> 00:18:55,833
in, in Silicon Valley.

615
00:18:56,208 --> 00:18:58,583
So it was definitely a,

616
00:18:59,041 --> 00:19:00,416
you know, during my like

617
00:19:00,416 --> 00:19:01,875
fifth or sixth hour of like

618
00:19:01,875 --> 00:19:02,833
the fifth day that I was

619
00:19:02,833 --> 00:19:04,125
the fifth day that I was

620
00:19:04,125 --> 00:19:05,541
traveling and looking for

621
00:19:05,541 --> 00:19:07,833
places to work, I started to

622
00:19:07,833 --> 00:19:08,875
ask myself, like, why am I

623
00:19:08,875 --> 00:19:09,791
doing this?

624
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:13,125
Like, what is this for?

625
00:19:14,583 --> 00:19:19,708
am I truly engaging the

626
00:19:19,708 --> 00:19:20,875
work that I went to law

627
00:19:20,875 --> 00:19:24,750
school to, to, to work

628
00:19:24,750 --> 00:19:24,916
on?

629
00:19:25,041 --> 00:19:26,125
Am I making impact?

630
00:19:26,583 --> 00:19:27,625
When I first went to law

631
00:19:27,625 --> 00:19:29,958
school, I wanted to work more

632
00:19:29,958 --> 00:19:32,083
so on like civil rights work,

633
00:19:32,291 --> 00:19:34,208
constitutional law.
Those were my favorite types

634
00:19:34,208 --> 00:19:36,125
of, subject matters as

635
00:19:36,125 --> 00:19:37,833
far as it came in, to the

636
00:19:37,833 --> 00:19:38,166
law.

637
00:19:38,416 --> 00:19:40,791
But as I grew older and

638
00:19:40,791 --> 00:19:42,291
really became enamored with

639
00:19:42,291 --> 00:19:43,291
intellectual property, I

640
00:19:43,291 --> 00:19:44,875
wanted to figure out a way to

641
00:19:44,875 --> 00:19:46,916
kind of intersect both

642
00:19:46,916 --> 00:19:50,041
because oftentimes, in my

643
00:19:50,041 --> 00:19:53,583
experience, when we're

644
00:19:53,583 --> 00:19:55,458
talking about like social

645
00:19:55,458 --> 00:19:57,458
justice or accessibility and

646
00:19:57,458 --> 00:20:01,416
the law, we're not thinking
about IP, we're thinking

647
00:20:01,416 --> 00:20:02,958
about domestic violence, or

648
00:20:02,958 --> 00:20:03,791
we're thinking about civil

649
00:20:03,791 --> 00:20:05,208
rights litigation or social

650
00:20:05,208 --> 00:20:06,791
justice or criminal law,

651
00:20:06,791 --> 00:20:08,291
which is all great.

652
00:20:08,791 --> 00:20:11,666
But what happens when you

653
00:20:11,666 --> 00:20:13,291
don't want to just survive,

654
00:20:13,291 --> 00:20:14,500
but you want to thrive, you

655
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:15,541
want to dream, you want to

656
00:20:15,541 --> 00:20:17,458
pass along the fruits of your

657
00:20:17,458 --> 00:20:20,458
labor to your family who is

658
00:20:20,458 --> 00:20:21,625
in the room, having those

659
00:20:21,625 --> 00:20:22,833
conversations with you.

660
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:26,125
So, I started to think of

661
00:20:26,125 --> 00:20:26,500
that.

662
00:20:27,125 --> 00:20:28,958
so when I got back from

663
00:20:28,958 --> 00:20:30,125
Europe, I was just angry at

664
00:20:30,125 --> 00:20:32,041
everybody and I was tired.

665
00:20:33,666 --> 00:20:34,541
Yeah, I imagine.

666
00:20:34,875 --> 00:20:36,375
And like out of rebellion, I

667
00:20:36,375 --> 00:20:37,208
just took like a mental

668
00:20:37,208 --> 00:20:38,208
health day and I was just

669
00:20:38,208 --> 00:20:39,208
like, I'm going to go watch.

670
00:20:39,833 --> 00:20:41,291
At the time, I think it was

671
00:20:41,291 --> 00:20:42,541
like what I call the

672
00:20:42,541 --> 00:20:43,666
national, the National

673
00:20:43,666 --> 00:20:44,708
Geographic version of the

674
00:20:44,708 --> 00:20:45,250
Lion King.

675
00:20:45,458 --> 00:20:47,416
It was out, you know, that

676
00:20:47,416 --> 00:20:48,291
version is just like so

677
00:20:48,291 --> 00:20:48,708
creepy.

678
00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:50,250
I was like, I just want the

679
00:20:50,250 --> 00:20:50,708
cartoons.

680
00:20:50,958 --> 00:20:52,291
I don't need, I don't need

681
00:20:52,291 --> 00:20:53,291
this National Geographic

682
00:20:53,291 --> 00:20:53,750
version.

683
00:20:54,166 --> 00:20:55,708
so I just went to watch

684
00:20:55,708 --> 00:20:56,041
it.

685
00:20:56,291 --> 00:20:57,125
But around that time I was

686
00:20:57,125 --> 00:20:58,708
still very fatigued, still

687
00:20:58,708 --> 00:21:00,333
very like, at the same

688
00:21:00,333 --> 00:21:01,875
time, restless, still very

689
00:21:01,875 --> 00:21:02,541
tired.

690
00:21:03,541 --> 00:21:04,750
And,

691
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,083
one of the ways

692
00:21:08,083 --> 00:21:10,208
that I would,

693
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:14,541
oone of the things that would help

694
00:21:14,541 --> 00:21:15,916
with my anxiety when I was

695
00:21:15,916 --> 00:21:16,958
living in the Silicon Valley,

696
00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:20,125
uh, was getting up and riding

697
00:21:20,125 --> 00:21:21,708
my bike at like the wee hours

698
00:21:21,708 --> 00:21:23,583
of the morning, because the

699
00:21:23,583 --> 00:21:24,791
Silicon Valley, there's a lot

700
00:21:24,791 --> 00:21:26,250
of campuses, like people,

701
00:21:26,375 --> 00:21:27,500
like there's a lot of space.

702
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:28,375
There's a lot of land.

703
00:21:28,833 --> 00:21:30,541
So here I am just riding my

704
00:21:30,541 --> 00:21:32,208
bike at like four o'clock in

705
00:21:32,208 --> 00:21:33,041
the morning, just like

706
00:21:33,041 --> 00:21:34,041
through the campuses and

707
00:21:34,041 --> 00:21:34,875
through these like big tech

708
00:21:34,875 --> 00:21:35,291
companies.

709
00:21:35,625 --> 00:21:36,958
And then I just hear like,

710
00:21:37,208 --> 00:21:37,958
I'm a God girl.

711
00:21:38,166 --> 00:21:40,333
So a lot of my, a lot of

712
00:21:40,333 --> 00:21:41,416
how I navigate life is

713
00:21:41,416 --> 00:21:42,708
through my faith, but I just

714
00:21:42,708 --> 00:21:43,208
through my faith, but I just

715
00:21:43,208 --> 00:21:44,250
heard a still small voice

716
00:21:44,250 --> 00:21:45,416
just saying, you can go now

717
00:21:45,416 --> 00:21:46,375
it's time to go.

718
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:49,333
and I felt, and I felt

719
00:21:49,333 --> 00:21:49,833
calm.

720
00:21:50,083 --> 00:21:51,833
And I felt calm now.

721
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,416
However, then I started to

722
00:21:53,416 --> 00:21:54,458
feel very panicky because I

723
00:21:54,458 --> 00:21:56,458
didn't know, go where do I

724
00:21:56,458 --> 00:21:56,708
go?

725
00:21:58,291 --> 00:22:00,166
Do I go to another job?

726
00:22:00,166 --> 00:22:01,208
You will start the journey

727
00:22:01,208 --> 00:22:01,541
now.

728
00:22:01,625 --> 00:22:01,875
Yeah.

729
00:22:01,916 --> 00:22:02,375
That sounds great.

730
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:02,791
Exactly.

731
00:22:02,791 --> 00:22:03,875
Which direction do I go?

732
00:22:04,083 --> 00:22:04,458
Exactly.

733
00:22:04,666 --> 00:22:07,250
Do I like, do I go to another

734
00:22:07,250 --> 00:22:08,000
law firm?

735
00:22:08,208 --> 00:22:12,083
Do I, do I work for the

736
00:22:12,083 --> 00:22:12,500
government?

737
00:22:12,750 --> 00:22:15,208
Do I, you know, go in house?

738
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,916
And at the time, at no point

739
00:22:19,916 --> 00:22:20,791
was I considering

740
00:22:20,791 --> 00:22:23,208
entrepreneurship at no point.

741
00:22:24,041 --> 00:22:25,875
so I was just feeling

742
00:22:25,875 --> 00:22:27,041
like I was going crazy.

743
00:22:27,041 --> 00:22:28,375
I was like, I don't know what

744
00:22:28,375 --> 00:22:29,000
I'm about to do.

745
00:22:29,041 --> 00:22:30,041
And I really do feel like I'm

746
00:22:30,041 --> 00:22:31,916
destroying my career because

747
00:22:31,916 --> 00:22:33,083
I'm a fifth year at this

748
00:22:33,083 --> 00:22:33,708
point.

749
00:22:33,833 --> 00:22:36,250
I'm like, you know, on the

750
00:22:36,250 --> 00:22:37,125
partner track.

751
00:22:37,125 --> 00:22:39,208
I'm like, if I just like,

752
00:22:39,291 --> 00:22:40,458
keep, you know, if I keep

753
00:22:40,458 --> 00:22:42,500
quiet and just keep my nose

754
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:44,208
to the grindstone, I could

755
00:22:44,208 --> 00:22:45,166
really make something of

756
00:22:45,166 --> 00:22:45,416
myself.

757
00:22:45,583 --> 00:22:46,791
So this idea that I was like

758
00:22:46,791 --> 00:22:47,708
challenging.

759
00:22:47,791 --> 00:22:50,708
in this traditional way of

760
00:22:50,708 --> 00:22:51,625
how things were done.

761
00:22:51,708 --> 00:22:54,958
It drove me semi-crazy.

762
00:22:55,166 --> 00:22:56,083
It did.

763
00:22:56,291 --> 00:22:58,583
I imagine also being, you

764
00:22:58,583 --> 00:22:59,833
mentioned being first in your

765
00:22:59,833 --> 00:23:01,583
family and then going to

766
00:23:01,583 --> 00:23:02,750
Berkeley and then being on

767
00:23:02,750 --> 00:23:04,041
the partner track and sort of

768
00:23:04,041 --> 00:23:04,875
being Silicon Valley.

769
00:23:05,416 --> 00:23:09,083
You're at what is supposed to

770
00:23:09,083 --> 00:23:11,583
feel like just arm's reach

771
00:23:11,583 --> 00:23:14,666
from partner at a firm, which

772
00:23:14,666 --> 00:23:16,041
there's always this feeling

773
00:23:16,041 --> 00:23:17,250
right around that corner.

774
00:23:17,416 --> 00:23:18,708
It's just so cushy, right?

775
00:23:18,833 --> 00:23:20,166
Like there's just everything

776
00:23:20,166 --> 00:23:21,291
is just given to you or

777
00:23:21,291 --> 00:23:22,666
whatever, but interesting to

778
00:23:22,666 --> 00:23:23,666
whatever, but interesting to

779
00:23:23,666 --> 00:23:26,791
hit that place where you sort

780
00:23:26,791 --> 00:23:28,625
of realize all that you were

781
00:23:28,625 --> 00:23:29,583
doing when you were on your

782
00:23:29,583 --> 00:23:31,833
trip for someone else,

783
00:23:34,083 --> 00:23:35,291
there's a good chance that

784
00:23:35,291 --> 00:23:36,458
you would make partner and

785
00:23:36,458 --> 00:23:37,625
that would not change and

786
00:23:37,625 --> 00:23:38,416
that would be the same.

787
00:23:39,083 --> 00:23:39,875
Exactly, exactly.

788
00:23:40,166 --> 00:23:41,375
Like I knew that I was just

789
00:23:41,375 --> 00:23:44,958
signing up to just do more

790
00:23:44,958 --> 00:23:47,916
work even above and beyond

791
00:23:47,916 --> 00:23:54,083
the work and the tiring work

792
00:23:54,083 --> 00:23:54,875
that I was doing.

793
00:23:55,458 --> 00:23:57,083
And again, it wasn't

794
00:23:57,083 --> 00:23:57,833
necessarily the subject

795
00:23:57,833 --> 00:23:59,000
matter because again, I'm

796
00:23:59,000 --> 00:23:59,583
still in IP.

797
00:24:00,083 --> 00:24:02,250
It was just the sheer amount

798
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:06,833
and the disregard for

799
00:24:06,833 --> 00:24:08,125
boundaries and rest.

800
00:24:08,291 --> 00:24:11,291
Like it was like you would be

801
00:24:11,291 --> 00:24:13,083
honored if you were working

802
00:24:13,083 --> 00:24:17,083
70, 80 weeks and people would

803
00:24:17,083 --> 00:24:18,166
look at you like what's wrong

804
00:24:18,166 --> 00:24:19,125
with you, what's wrong with

805
00:24:19,125 --> 00:24:20,541
your life if you're working

806
00:24:20,541 --> 00:24:21,916
anything less than that.

807
00:24:22,666 --> 00:24:23,916
And it wasn't just, frankly,

808
00:24:24,083 --> 00:24:25,083
it wasn't sustainable.

809
00:24:25,333 --> 00:24:26,833
It just wasn't sustainable.

810
00:24:26,958 --> 00:24:27,833
I had no life.

811
00:24:28,375 --> 00:24:29,541
I felt very lonely.

812
00:24:30,333 --> 00:24:32,416
I would get up super early,

813
00:24:32,541 --> 00:24:33,500
go into the office because

814
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:34,541
this was before COVID.

815
00:24:34,875 --> 00:24:36,458
So this was before work from

816
00:24:36,458 --> 00:24:37,750
home was like really a thing.

817
00:24:38,375 --> 00:24:40,250
Get up, go into the office.

818
00:24:41,875 --> 00:24:43,833
I like seven o'clock in the

819
00:24:43,833 --> 00:24:45,875
morning, be there until about

820
00:24:45,875 --> 00:24:47,458
8 p.m., come home and still

821
00:24:47,458 --> 00:24:48,125
do work.

822
00:24:48,416 --> 00:24:51,333
And that was my existence for

823
00:24:51,333 --> 00:24:52,083
years.

824
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:55,291
And it just, it was a very

825
00:24:55,291 --> 00:24:57,541
lonely journey and a very,

826
00:24:57,708 --> 00:24:59,458
and this is one of the

827
00:24:59,458 --> 00:25:01,375
reasons why alcoholism and

828
00:25:01,375 --> 00:25:04,250
suicide rates are so high

829
00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:05,666
amongst attorneys because we

830
00:25:05,666 --> 00:25:07,625
are very isolated.

831
00:25:08,375 --> 00:25:10,416
And we, and as a result, we

832
00:25:10,416 --> 00:25:12,875
have no real choice but to

833
00:25:12,875 --> 00:25:15,083
really mesh our identities

834
00:25:15,083 --> 00:25:16,750
with the quality of our work

835
00:25:16,750 --> 00:25:17,083
product.

836
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:18,125
Right.

837
00:25:19,291 --> 00:25:20,625
I feel like a lot of times

838
00:25:20,625 --> 00:25:22,166
that stress and anxiety comes

839
00:25:22,166 --> 00:25:24,833
from feeling trapped and that

840
00:25:24,833 --> 00:25:26,458
you can't do anything about

841
00:25:26,458 --> 00:25:26,666
it.

842
00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:28,416
And I imagine for so many

843
00:25:28,416 --> 00:25:35,166
people that also financially

844
00:25:35,166 --> 00:25:37,375
and family and others being

845
00:25:37,375 --> 00:25:40,250
trapped almost physically by

846
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:41,875
not being able to just make a

847
00:25:41,875 --> 00:25:43,041
decision to go do something.

848
00:25:43,708 --> 00:25:45,666
And then also the job that

849
00:25:45,666 --> 00:25:47,166
you're at is so demanding and

850
00:25:47,166 --> 00:25:48,416
people are sort of assuming

851
00:25:48,416 --> 00:25:51,125
this extraordinarily high bar

852
00:25:51,125 --> 00:25:52,208
that doesn't take into

853
00:25:52,208 --> 00:25:53,583
account your mental and

854
00:25:53,583 --> 00:25:54,666
physical and health.

855
00:25:56,375 --> 00:25:58,500
And that you look around and

856
00:25:58,500 --> 00:25:59,708
you're like, well, I can't

857
00:25:59,708 --> 00:26:00,916
really do anything about

858
00:26:00,916 --> 00:26:01,291
this.

859
00:26:01,416 --> 00:26:03,125
To your point, I think leads

860
00:26:03,125 --> 00:26:04,625
to that depression and

861
00:26:04,625 --> 00:26:05,875
substance abuse, because you

862
00:26:05,875 --> 00:26:07,375
just want sort of some sort

863
00:26:07,375 --> 00:26:08,666
of mental escape that allows

864
00:26:08,666 --> 00:26:11,583
you to, I don't know, to kind

865
00:26:11,583 --> 00:26:12,416
of feel like you've got a

866
00:26:12,416 --> 00:26:13,791
little control of your life

867
00:26:13,791 --> 00:26:15,083
on something.

868
00:26:16,625 --> 00:26:19,500
And so, yeah, I can imagine

869
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:21,083
that was a rough period,

870
00:26:21,125 --> 00:26:23,875
especially coming, like you

871
00:26:23,875 --> 00:26:26,291
said, with your journey and

872
00:26:26,291 --> 00:26:27,208
getting to the place where

873
00:26:27,208 --> 00:26:28,500
you feel like you're at the,

874
00:26:28,708 --> 00:26:30,166
what would be the 10 yard

875
00:26:30,166 --> 00:26:31,666
line, but then realizing that

876
00:26:31,666 --> 00:26:33,125
there's not actually

877
00:26:33,125 --> 00:26:35,291
anything, right around that

878
00:26:35,291 --> 00:26:36,750
corner that's gonna make you

879
00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:37,125
feel better.

880
00:26:37,416 --> 00:26:38,500
Yeah, I mean, they call it

881
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:39,708
golden handcuffs for a

882
00:26:39,708 --> 00:26:40,125
reason.

883
00:26:42,333 --> 00:26:44,333
And I love that you actually

884
00:26:44,333 --> 00:26:45,375
brought that up, because

885
00:26:45,375 --> 00:26:47,083
although I wasn't able to

886
00:26:47,083 --> 00:26:49,125
work in big law and do the

887
00:26:49,125 --> 00:26:50,750
side hustle at the same time,

888
00:26:51,375 --> 00:26:53,041
I was privileged.

889
00:26:53,833 --> 00:26:56,625
As a result of having had my

890
00:26:56,625 --> 00:26:58,833
federal clerkship, I got a

891
00:26:58,833 --> 00:27:00,791
really cushy sign-on bonus

892
00:27:00,791 --> 00:27:02,875
with the firm.

893
00:27:05,375 --> 00:27:07,625
And as a result, I was able

894
00:27:07,625 --> 00:27:08,916
to work with my financial

895
00:27:08,916 --> 00:27:12,375
advisor to kind of really

896
00:27:12,375 --> 00:27:14,083
think through a working

897
00:27:14,083 --> 00:27:16,833
budget as I went on my eat,

898
00:27:16,875 --> 00:27:17,958
pray, love journey, so to

899
00:27:17,958 --> 00:27:19,125
speak, right?

900
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:23,208
So that was definitely

901
00:27:23,208 --> 00:27:26,166
something that I was really

902
00:27:26,166 --> 00:27:27,666
grateful for.

903
00:27:27,833 --> 00:27:29,375
I wasn't starting from ground

904
00:27:29,375 --> 00:27:29,625
zero.

905
00:27:29,833 --> 00:27:31,958
And I remember after I got,

906
00:27:32,541 --> 00:27:33,541
as I was getting through my

907
00:27:33,541 --> 00:27:35,583
panic, I was praying a lot,

908
00:27:36,291 --> 00:27:38,041
journaling a lot, listening

909
00:27:38,041 --> 00:27:39,041
to a lot of great sermons,

910
00:27:39,166 --> 00:27:42,083
but also I was also really

911
00:27:42,083 --> 00:27:45,000
upping the number of times I

912
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:45,958
went to my therapist.

913
00:27:46,791 --> 00:27:48,458
I was really- upping, you

914
00:27:48,458 --> 00:27:50,875
know, the reach outs to my

915
00:27:50,875 --> 00:27:52,041
village, to my community.

916
00:27:52,583 --> 00:27:54,750
I was also seeking out other

917
00:27:54,750 --> 00:27:56,375
folks who went from Big Law

918
00:27:56,375 --> 00:27:57,541
to start their own thing.

919
00:27:58,083 --> 00:28:00,208
And I also invested in a

920
00:28:00,208 --> 00:28:00,916
career coach.

921
00:28:01,958 --> 00:28:03,875
So there was a lot, there was

922
00:28:03,875 --> 00:28:05,708
a village, so to speak,

923
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:09,333
around me to kind of help me

924
00:28:09,333 --> 00:28:11,666
think through how I was

925
00:28:11,666 --> 00:28:13,041
engaging this journey.

926
00:28:14,916 --> 00:28:16,708
Also, making sure I didn't

927
00:28:16,708 --> 00:28:18,208
burn bridges on the way out,

928
00:28:18,541 --> 00:28:19,291
right?

929
00:28:19,916 --> 00:28:21,416
Because I might come back.

930
00:28:22,125 --> 00:28:23,916
I might just come back.

931
00:28:24,333 --> 00:28:27,041
Yeah.
I love that process of, I

932
00:28:27,041 --> 00:28:28,416
always think of the easiest

933
00:28:28,416 --> 00:28:30,375
way I've been able to ever

934
00:28:30,375 --> 00:28:31,125
describe it.

935
00:28:31,625 --> 00:28:34,708
That sort of, there is a,

936
00:28:34,791 --> 00:28:39,208
there's a distortion field

937
00:28:39,208 --> 00:28:41,958
when you're in work or when,

938
00:28:42,125 --> 00:28:43,125
especially when you're in an

939
00:28:43,125 --> 00:28:43,958
environment like that.

940
00:28:44,041 --> 00:28:45,000
For me, I was at a big

941
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,875
consulting firm and, you

942
00:28:47,875 --> 00:28:49,000
know, it's almost like you're

943
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,291
just saturated with the

944
00:28:50,291 --> 00:28:52,041
Kool-Aid of how things are

945
00:28:52,041 --> 00:28:52,833
supposed to be.

946
00:28:53,625 --> 00:28:54,708
And you're almost surrounded

947
00:28:54,708 --> 00:28:57,333
in this matrix that have all

948
00:28:57,333 --> 00:28:58,458
these sort of rules about how

949
00:28:58,458 --> 00:28:59,500
it should be and how much you

950
00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:00,041
should be working.

951
00:29:00,291 --> 00:29:01,750
And don't you want to become

952
00:29:01,750 --> 00:29:03,000
a managing director?

953
00:29:03,208 --> 00:29:04,000
And like every, you know what

954
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:04,166
I mean?

955
00:29:04,166 --> 00:29:05,458
Like everybody sort of is

956
00:29:05,458 --> 00:29:06,291
chasing the same thing.

957
00:29:06,583 --> 00:29:08,166
What I love about your Eat Pray

958
00:29:08,166 --> 00:29:09,541
Love and getting out of that

959
00:29:09,541 --> 00:29:11,750
is it doesn't have to be an

960
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:12,708
immediate big shit.

961
00:29:13,208 --> 00:29:13,833
You don't have to make a big

962
00:29:13,833 --> 00:29:15,291
decision to just quit your

963
00:29:15,291 --> 00:29:15,625
job.

964
00:29:15,708 --> 00:29:17,041
But what is important, I

965
00:29:17,041 --> 00:29:19,666
think, either, even if you're

966
00:29:19,666 --> 00:29:22,250
in it or not, is to get out

967
00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:23,541
of the matrix and get

968
00:29:23,541 --> 00:29:24,125
different perspectives from

969
00:29:24,125 --> 00:29:24,791
different perspectives from

970
00:29:24,791 --> 00:29:25,250
different places.

971
00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:25,916
different places.

972
00:29:26,250 --> 00:29:27,750
And to your point about like

973
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:29,750
praying and taking time by

974
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:30,875
yourself in the early morning

975
00:29:30,875 --> 00:29:32,791
and by having community

976
00:29:32,791 --> 00:29:34,250
discussions and more therapy

977
00:29:34,250 --> 00:29:36,291
discussions, you're getting

978
00:29:36,291 --> 00:29:37,291
yourself out of the matrix.

979
00:29:37,708 --> 00:29:39,458
And it's just like being in a

980
00:29:39,458 --> 00:29:41,583
bad, terrible relationship.

981
00:29:41,833 --> 00:29:42,750
And when you're in it, you

982
00:29:42,750 --> 00:29:44,333
really can't see all those

983
00:29:44,333 --> 00:29:45,875
sort of ways that you might

984
00:29:45,875 --> 00:29:46,541
be able to get out.

985
00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:48,875
But then perspective and

986
00:29:48,875 --> 00:29:50,166
time, and then a year or two

987
00:29:50,166 --> 00:29:51,916
later, you're like, what?

988
00:29:52,625 --> 00:29:54,458
Why did I even think that

989
00:29:54,458 --> 00:29:55,500
that was okay?

990
00:29:55,916 --> 00:29:57,333
And so it's like finding

991
00:29:57,333 --> 00:29:59,000
these ways to give yourself

992
00:29:59,000 --> 00:29:59,666
perspective.

993
00:30:00,416 --> 00:30:01,958
Now you may find when you're

994
00:30:01,958 --> 00:30:04,500
out there listening that

995
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:06,125
you're in a place that you

996
00:30:06,125 --> 00:30:08,083
could probably push through

997
00:30:08,083 --> 00:30:09,666
or have better boundaries or

998
00:30:09,666 --> 00:30:09,833
whatever.

999
00:30:09,833 --> 00:30:11,333
And you may find ways to sort

1000
00:30:11,333 --> 00:30:11,958
of adjust that.

1001
00:30:12,041 --> 00:30:13,000
But at least you're getting

1002
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,291
out for a much more objective

1003
00:30:14,291 --> 00:30:16,458
view than what I think is

1004
00:30:16,458 --> 00:30:18,416
sometimes when you're just

1005
00:30:18,416 --> 00:30:20,083
drinking Kool-Aid all day,

1006
00:30:20,125 --> 00:30:22,000
every day, then it's really

1007
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,125
hard to have perspective on

1008
00:30:23,125 --> 00:30:23,375
anything.

1009
00:30:23,916 --> 00:30:24,291
Absolutely.

1010
00:30:24,625 --> 00:30:26,541
You have to, and obviously

1011
00:30:26,541 --> 00:30:27,375
people don't have to do

1012
00:30:27,375 --> 00:30:29,583
anything, but what's helpful

1013
00:30:29,583 --> 00:30:32,541
and what helped me, frankly,

1014
00:30:32,666 --> 00:30:33,708
just remain an attorney

1015
00:30:33,708 --> 00:30:35,208
because another alternative

1016
00:30:35,208 --> 00:30:36,583
was just leaving the law

1017
00:30:36,583 --> 00:30:37,166
altogether.

1018
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:40,666
What helped me remain an

1019
00:30:40,666 --> 00:30:42,083
attorney was, to your point,

1020
00:30:42,250 --> 00:30:44,250
Kyle, having those different

1021
00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:46,250
perspectives so I could see

1022
00:30:46,250 --> 00:30:48,916
that there was more than one

1023
00:30:48,916 --> 00:30:51,416
way to do law, right?

1024
00:30:52,416 --> 00:30:54,166
And one of the, even around

1025
00:30:54,166 --> 00:30:55,166
that time, one of the books

1026
00:30:55,166 --> 00:30:57,166
that I read was Becoming by

1027
00:30:57,166 --> 00:30:57,833
Michelle Obama.

1028
00:30:58,333 --> 00:30:59,500
And I really appreciate

1029
00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:03,000
diverse stories because, and

1030
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,166
I remember talking to my

1031
00:31:04,166 --> 00:31:05,125
career coach about this at

1032
00:31:05,125 --> 00:31:07,125
the time, Michelle talked

1033
00:31:07,125 --> 00:31:08,875
about how she wanted to quit

1034
00:31:08,875 --> 00:31:10,666
being a lawyer, a practicing

1035
00:31:10,666 --> 00:31:12,041
attorney, how she thought it

1036
00:31:12,041 --> 00:31:13,666
was boring, how she thought

1037
00:31:13,666 --> 00:31:16,833
it was morally questionable

1038
00:31:16,833 --> 00:31:18,250
and all that great stuff.

1039
00:31:18,541 --> 00:31:19,833
And what I love so much about

1040
00:31:19,833 --> 00:31:21,291
her story is that I didn't

1041
00:31:21,291 --> 00:31:22,000
feel that way.

1042
00:31:23,458 --> 00:31:24,583
I actually didn't feel that

1043
00:31:24,583 --> 00:31:24,791
way.

1044
00:31:24,958 --> 00:31:26,000
I loved the law.

1045
00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:27,666
I love doing the research.

1046
00:31:27,875 --> 00:31:30,041
I love digging into the case

1047
00:31:30,041 --> 00:31:30,208
law.

1048
00:31:30,291 --> 00:31:31,541
I love doing the research,

1049
00:31:31,791 --> 00:31:32,708
like all of that.

1050
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:35,291
And it was such an aha moment

1051
00:31:35,291 --> 00:31:39,958
for me because I was able to

1052
00:31:39,958 --> 00:31:42,708
kind of compare my story

1053
00:31:42,708 --> 00:31:44,583
against the backdrop of

1054
00:31:44,583 --> 00:31:46,958
another person who, by all

1055
00:31:46,958 --> 00:31:48,083
intents and purposes, may

1056
00:31:48,083 --> 00:31:49,750
have had a similar story to

1057
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:50,125
mine.

1058
00:31:51,458 --> 00:31:53,416
So it allowed me to say,

1059
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:56,500
okay, well, I don't think I

1060
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:57,166
hate the law.

1061
00:31:57,416 --> 00:32:00,875
So are there other ways to do

1062
00:32:00,875 --> 00:32:01,375
law?

1063
00:32:01,958 --> 00:32:04,416
Maybe I don't like the way

1064
00:32:04,416 --> 00:32:06,041
legal services are

1065
00:32:06,041 --> 00:32:06,833
administered.

1066
00:32:07,291 --> 00:32:09,416
So it allowed me space to

1067
00:32:09,416 --> 00:32:12,083
appreciate the nuance instead

1068
00:32:12,083 --> 00:32:13,166
of thinking that this was

1069
00:32:13,166 --> 00:32:14,041
black and white.

1070
00:32:14,750 --> 00:32:16,666
And while I was on that

1071
00:32:16,666 --> 00:32:19,000
journey, I happened to come

1072
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,375
across a couple of attorneys

1073
00:32:20,375 --> 00:32:24,291
who had their own law firm,

1074
00:32:24,666 --> 00:32:26,125
were big on social media,

1075
00:32:26,541 --> 00:32:27,791
were making the impact that

1076
00:32:27,791 --> 00:32:29,583
they wanted to make, and it

1077
00:32:29,583 --> 00:32:30,708
looked like they were truly

1078
00:32:30,708 --> 00:32:32,250
their authentic self.

1079
00:32:32,541 --> 00:32:34,250
And I said, I think I can do

1080
00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:35,083
something like that.

1081
00:32:36,083 --> 00:32:36,833
And that's what really

1082
00:32:36,833 --> 00:32:37,750
started the journey to

1083
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:38,500
building Firm for the

1084
00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:38,791
Culture.

1085
00:32:39,708 --> 00:32:42,125
Well, what was that turning

1086
00:32:42,125 --> 00:32:44,250
point when you said, I'm out?

1087
00:32:45,708 --> 00:32:46,916
I'm busting through the

1088
00:32:46,916 --> 00:32:47,791
matrix and we're going to...

1089
00:32:47,791 --> 00:32:49,000
to figure out if this thing

1090
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:49,625
works or not.

1091
00:32:49,958 --> 00:32:50,250
Yeah.

1092
00:32:51,708 --> 00:32:56,166
So in big law, in many law

1093
00:32:56,166 --> 00:33:02,041
firms, you have to engage a

1094
00:33:02,041 --> 00:33:03,250
minimum number of billable

1095
00:33:03,250 --> 00:33:04,125
hours per year.

1096
00:33:05,375 --> 00:33:07,291
And, you know, obviously that

1097
00:33:07,291 --> 00:33:09,666
averages out to a certain

1098
00:33:09,666 --> 00:33:11,500
amount of hours per month.

1099
00:33:12,041 --> 00:33:13,291
And if you're not making

1100
00:33:13,291 --> 00:33:14,458
those hours on a monthly

1101
00:33:14,458 --> 00:33:16,708
basis, the powers that be are

1102
00:33:16,708 --> 00:33:17,333
gonna check in.

1103
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,166
So I was taking up my

1104
00:33:20,166 --> 00:33:21,083
vacation time.

1105
00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:22,208
I was taking up my sick

1106
00:33:22,208 --> 00:33:22,541
leave.

1107
00:33:22,791 --> 00:33:24,166
I was doing all the things to

1108
00:33:24,166 --> 00:33:27,291
kind of explore what this

1109
00:33:27,291 --> 00:33:28,333
journey was gonna look like.

1110
00:33:28,333 --> 00:33:30,083
I was literally moving out of

1111
00:33:30,083 --> 00:33:30,833
the Silicon Valley.

1112
00:33:30,958 --> 00:33:33,125
I was moving into a mentor's

1113
00:33:33,125 --> 00:33:35,208
house, renting like a room

1114
00:33:35,208 --> 00:33:36,541
for like $800 a month.

1115
00:33:36,791 --> 00:33:37,666
Like all of these were

1116
00:33:37,666 --> 00:33:38,708
happening while I was still

1117
00:33:38,708 --> 00:33:39,625
quote unquote technically on

1118
00:33:39,625 --> 00:33:40,000
the payroll.

1119
00:33:40,291 --> 00:33:41,750
Now I wasn't practicing law.

1120
00:33:42,166 --> 00:33:43,416
So let's be clear ethics

1121
00:33:43,416 --> 00:33:43,750
people.

1122
00:33:44,291 --> 00:33:46,041
I wasn't practicing law, but

1123
00:33:46,041 --> 00:33:47,375
I was building the systems

1124
00:33:47,375 --> 00:33:48,458
and I was starting to like

1125
00:33:48,458 --> 00:33:50,750
really learn what it meant to

1126
00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:51,750
build another law firm.

1127
00:33:52,166 --> 00:33:53,958
And then like suddenly I got

1128
00:33:53,958 --> 00:33:54,875
a couple of people checking

1129
00:33:54,875 --> 00:33:55,083
in.

1130
00:33:55,166 --> 00:33:57,041
They were like, hey, hey,

1131
00:33:57,250 --> 00:33:58,333
just checking in.

1132
00:33:59,125 --> 00:33:59,541
Yeah.

1133
00:33:59,583 --> 00:34:00,333
What's going on?

1134
00:34:00,541 --> 00:34:01,958
And at that point I knew,

1135
00:34:02,041 --> 00:34:04,458
okay, I need to start, I need

1136
00:34:04,458 --> 00:34:05,083
to make a decision.

1137
00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:06,250
I need to start transitioning

1138
00:34:06,250 --> 00:34:08,000
out before I like get fired

1139
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,458
essentially.

1140
00:34:10,416 --> 00:34:12,000
So they started checking in,

1141
00:34:12,041 --> 00:34:13,916
I think around the end of

1142
00:34:13,916 --> 00:34:16,583
August, early September, or

1143
00:34:16,583 --> 00:34:17,750
maybe even later than that.

1144
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:18,541
Cause I think I was like

1145
00:34:18,541 --> 00:34:19,625
really, really under the

1146
00:34:19,625 --> 00:34:22,291
radar, like really in a way

1147
00:34:22,291 --> 00:34:23,833
that like impressed even me.

1148
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,416
So they might've started

1149
00:34:26,416 --> 00:34:28,666
checking in around like early

1150
00:34:28,666 --> 00:34:29,083
October.

1151
00:34:29,416 --> 00:34:31,500
And the reason why is because

1152
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:33,541
at the time I did have a side

1153
00:34:33,541 --> 00:34:34,750
hustle, but it wasn't a legal

1154
00:34:34,750 --> 00:34:34,916
one.

1155
00:34:34,958 --> 00:34:36,291
It was called the First

1156
00:34:36,291 --> 00:34:37,375
Generation Purpose Project,

1157
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:38,666
which is my first business,

1158
00:34:38,916 --> 00:34:39,958
which is an initiative

1159
00:34:39,958 --> 00:34:41,041
designed to help first gen

1160
00:34:41,041 --> 00:34:42,166
professionals navigate life

1161
00:34:42,166 --> 00:34:44,083
and career by utilizing the

1162
00:34:44,083 --> 00:34:45,083
grit and tenacity that's

1163
00:34:45,083 --> 00:34:45,958
already on the inside of

1164
00:34:45,958 --> 00:34:46,208
them.

1165
00:34:46,791 --> 00:34:50,833
And my first client was Yale

1166
00:34:50,833 --> 00:34:51,416
Law School.

1167
00:34:52,541 --> 00:34:54,875
And the managing attorney of

1168
00:34:54,875 --> 00:34:57,750
the office that I was working

1169
00:34:57,750 --> 00:35:01,583
in went to Yale as a, so she

1170
00:35:01,583 --> 00:35:02,500
kind of found out through the

1171
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:03,666
grapevine that this was

1172
00:35:03,666 --> 00:35:04,166
happening.

1173
00:35:04,791 --> 00:35:06,541
And she was like, hey, like,

1174
00:35:07,041 --> 00:35:08,041
why don't you speak about,

1175
00:35:08,125 --> 00:35:09,250
you know, our law firm there?

1176
00:35:09,291 --> 00:35:11,958
And I was like, no, unless

1177
00:35:11,958 --> 00:35:12,750
you pay me.

1178
00:35:13,166 --> 00:35:13,750
Like I don't have to do that.

1179
00:35:13,875 --> 00:35:14,916
Don't cross the stream.

1180
00:35:15,208 --> 00:35:16,083
Exactly, exactly.

1181
00:35:16,291 --> 00:35:18,666
So she started like, I think

1182
00:35:18,666 --> 00:35:19,833
discerning that something

1183
00:35:19,833 --> 00:35:20,916
else was going on.

1184
00:35:20,916 --> 00:35:22,708
And then once the Yale thing

1185
00:35:22,708 --> 00:35:24,625
took off, like I posted it on

1186
00:35:24,625 --> 00:35:26,750
LinkedIn and went viral, then

1187
00:35:26,750 --> 00:35:28,791
I got invited to speak at the

1188
00:35:28,791 --> 00:35:29,791
United States Department of

1189
00:35:29,791 --> 00:35:30,166
Commerce.

1190
00:35:30,750 --> 00:35:32,000
And then I got invited to

1191
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:32,791
speak at all of these

1192
00:35:32,791 --> 00:35:33,541
different places.

1193
00:35:33,958 --> 00:35:35,208
So I started to get more

1194
00:35:35,208 --> 00:35:36,708
confidence and think, oh, I

1195
00:35:36,708 --> 00:35:37,666
can do this.

1196
00:35:37,791 --> 00:35:39,166
I can like actually speak

1197
00:35:39,166 --> 00:35:40,041
about things that are

1198
00:35:40,041 --> 00:35:40,666
meaningful to me.

1199
00:35:40,791 --> 00:35:42,666
I can share stories and I can

1200
00:35:42,666 --> 00:35:44,166
also obtain clients.

1201
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:48,541
So it was around also that

1202
00:35:48,541 --> 00:35:50,083
time because some of my

1203
00:35:50,083 --> 00:35:51,500
colleagues, you know, follow

1204
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:52,458
me on LinkedIn that they were

1205
00:35:52,458 --> 00:35:53,583
just like, what's going, what

1206
00:35:53,583 --> 00:35:54,458
are you doing?

1207
00:35:55,458 --> 00:35:56,583
What's going on?

1208
00:35:56,791 --> 00:35:58,166
And I think at that point I

1209
00:35:58,166 --> 00:36:00,000
could no longer keep it

1210
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,375
silent.

1211
00:36:00,541 --> 00:36:01,583
And they were also proud.

1212
00:36:01,708 --> 00:36:02,833
It wasn't a matter of like,

1213
00:36:03,083 --> 00:36:04,250
you shouldn't be doing this.

1214
00:36:04,291 --> 00:36:06,000
It was a matter of like,

1215
00:36:06,041 --> 00:36:06,833
we're gonna announce it

1216
00:36:06,833 --> 00:36:07,583
internally because we're

1217
00:36:07,583 --> 00:36:09,375
proud of you, but also we're

1218
00:36:09,375 --> 00:36:10,458
looking at your hours and

1219
00:36:10,458 --> 00:36:11,208
they're also low.

1220
00:36:11,333 --> 00:36:12,583
So like, let's figure out how

1221
00:36:12,583 --> 00:36:13,791
to reconcile these two

1222
00:36:13,791 --> 00:36:14,166
things.

1223
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,583
Let's help, like, let's help

1224
00:36:16,583 --> 00:36:16,708
you.

1225
00:36:16,750 --> 00:36:17,375
Let's mentor you.

1226
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:18,375
Obviously you may not know

1227
00:36:18,375 --> 00:36:19,625
what's like how to do this.

1228
00:36:19,833 --> 00:36:20,541
And I was like, no, I know

1229
00:36:20,541 --> 00:36:21,291
exactly how to do this.

1230
00:36:21,333 --> 00:36:22,791
I'm like trying to get out,

1231
00:36:22,791 --> 00:36:23,166
like.

1232
00:36:23,791 --> 00:36:23,875
Totally.

1233
00:36:24,291 --> 00:36:25,375
Well, that's amazing to also

1234
00:36:25,375 --> 00:36:27,583
have a bit of that, that sort

1235
00:36:27,583 --> 00:36:29,208
of soft landing and that

1236
00:36:29,208 --> 00:36:32,000
journey, at least that it's

1237
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,791
not sort of come into my

1238
00:36:33,791 --> 00:36:37,166
office, get the proverbial

1239
00:36:37,166 --> 00:36:39,250
box, put your frames and your

1240
00:36:39,250 --> 00:36:41,083
flower pot in it, you know,

1241
00:36:41,166 --> 00:36:43,125
like, you know, that it was a

1242
00:36:43,125 --> 00:36:44,833
bit of a process, which is

1243
00:36:44,833 --> 00:36:45,458
great.

1244
00:36:45,791 --> 00:36:47,125
And that you got that kind of

1245
00:36:47,125 --> 00:36:48,041
And that you got that kind of

1246
00:36:48,041 --> 00:36:51,500
like the first project being

1247
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:54,041
the training ground, like you

1248
00:36:54,041 --> 00:36:55,541
said, of being able to, how I

1249
00:36:55,541 --> 00:36:56,916
get on social and how I sort

1250
00:36:56,916 --> 00:36:57,875
of speak to people about and

1251
00:36:57,875 --> 00:36:59,625
how I start to gain clients

1252
00:36:59,625 --> 00:37:00,958
and things like that, that I

1253
00:37:00,958 --> 00:37:02,208
imagine that getting to that,

1254
00:37:02,291 --> 00:37:03,583
where you have a day where

1255
00:37:03,583 --> 00:37:05,000
you're like, if I just apply

1256
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,583
law to this same process,

1257
00:37:08,208 --> 00:37:10,416
then I can see where things

1258
00:37:10,416 --> 00:37:10,791
are headed.

1259
00:37:11,250 --> 00:37:11,750
Absolutely.

1260
00:37:12,291 --> 00:37:15,541
Like, I know for a fact that

1261
00:37:15,541 --> 00:37:17,583
firms of the culture with all

1262
00:37:17,583 --> 00:37:18,958
of its systems and

1263
00:37:18,958 --> 00:37:20,708
thingamajigs and all of the

1264
00:37:20,708 --> 00:37:22,000
text message confirmations,

1265
00:37:22,333 --> 00:37:23,458
that's probably for me, it's

1266
00:37:23,458 --> 00:37:24,250
probably a reminder or

1267
00:37:24,250 --> 00:37:24,458
something.

1268
00:37:25,125 --> 00:37:28,666
Like with all of those

1269
00:37:28,666 --> 00:37:30,166
things, none of that would

1270
00:37:30,166 --> 00:37:31,500
have existed or I would not

1271
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:32,875
have been so obsessed with

1272
00:37:32,875 --> 00:37:34,833
systems had I not had my

1273
00:37:34,833 --> 00:37:35,708
first business.

1274
00:37:37,375 --> 00:37:38,666
With First Generation Purpose

1275
00:37:38,666 --> 00:37:40,416
Project, it took off so

1276
00:37:40,416 --> 00:37:44,291
quickly and I didn't even

1277
00:37:44,291 --> 00:37:46,333
have an invoice system.

1278
00:37:47,791 --> 00:37:48,375
Right.

1279
00:37:48,750 --> 00:37:49,416
I didn't even have an

1280
00:37:49,416 --> 00:37:50,333
invoicing system.

1281
00:37:50,708 --> 00:37:51,791
I didn't even have.

1282
00:37:51,791 --> 00:37:52,708
I can see that by the way,

1283
00:37:52,750 --> 00:37:53,875
like you open up word and

1284
00:37:53,875 --> 00:37:54,666
you're like, is there an

1285
00:37:54,666 --> 00:37:55,625
invoice template?

1286
00:37:55,791 --> 00:37:56,083
Yeah.

1287
00:37:56,166 --> 00:37:56,958
Like you're asking that

1288
00:37:56,958 --> 00:37:57,875
little, you're asking that

1289
00:37:57,875 --> 00:37:59,083
little paperclip person.

1290
00:37:59,375 --> 00:38:00,333
It's like, Hey, paperclip

1291
00:38:00,333 --> 00:38:02,333
person, can you make an

1292
00:38:02,333 --> 00:38:03,208
invoice for me?

1293
00:38:03,791 --> 00:38:05,416
Like it was, it was trash.

1294
00:38:05,416 --> 00:38:06,916
Like I didn't, I didn't even

1295
00:38:06,916 --> 00:38:08,041
know how to like really work

1296
00:38:08,041 --> 00:38:08,375
PayPal.

1297
00:38:08,458 --> 00:38:09,166
I didn't know how to make

1298
00:38:09,166 --> 00:38:10,750
like a, a square link.

1299
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,500
Like none of these things

1300
00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:13,291
were in existence.

1301
00:38:14,333 --> 00:38:15,791
So when I spoke from the

1302
00:38:15,791 --> 00:38:18,041
stage and shared my story, I

1303
00:38:18,041 --> 00:38:20,583
didn't know how to collect

1304
00:38:20,583 --> 00:38:21,166
leads.

1305
00:38:21,291 --> 00:38:22,791
I didn't know about the

1306
00:38:22,791 --> 00:38:23,666
importance of collecting

1307
00:38:23,666 --> 00:38:24,083
leads.

1308
00:38:24,250 --> 00:38:25,750
Like I knew none of that,

1309
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:26,625
none of that.

1310
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,208
So I didn't really know how

1311
00:38:28,208 --> 00:38:28,791
to make a sustainable

1312
00:38:28,791 --> 00:38:29,166
business.

1313
00:38:29,291 --> 00:38:30,375
And then on top of that,

1314
00:38:30,791 --> 00:38:31,833
although I was an IP

1315
00:38:31,833 --> 00:38:33,666
litigator, it's very

1316
00:38:33,666 --> 00:38:35,041
different from what I do now

1317
00:38:35,041 --> 00:38:37,000
as an IP prosecutor and IP

1318
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:38,458
prosecutor is where I

1319
00:38:38,458 --> 00:38:40,541
prosecute legal matters on

1320
00:38:40,541 --> 00:38:41,958
behalf of our clients at the

1321
00:38:41,958 --> 00:38:42,708
United States Patent and

1322
00:38:42,708 --> 00:38:43,625
Trademark Office, which is a

1323
00:38:43,625 --> 00:38:45,708
very different governmental

1324
00:38:45,708 --> 00:38:48,458
tribunal than the courts of

1325
00:38:48,458 --> 00:38:50,833
like law litigation, so to

1326
00:38:50,833 --> 00:38:51,125
speak.

1327
00:38:51,708 --> 00:38:54,333
So I was very ignorant to the

1328
00:38:54,333 --> 00:38:55,875
process of actually applying

1329
00:38:55,875 --> 00:38:58,083
for a trademark or applying

1330
00:38:58,083 --> 00:39:00,833
for copyright or arguing on

1331
00:39:00,833 --> 00:39:02,041
behalf of clients before the

1332
00:39:02,041 --> 00:39:02,708
USPTO.

1333
00:39:03,541 --> 00:39:05,166
So when I applied for my own

1334
00:39:05,166 --> 00:39:06,958
trademark, I got rejected

1335
00:39:06,958 --> 00:39:08,291
twice.

1336
00:39:08,750 --> 00:39:10,083
I got the,

1337
00:39:10,083 --> 00:39:11,208
the toughest rejections.

1338
00:39:11,916 --> 00:39:14,333
Now fortunately I dug in and

1339
00:39:14,333 --> 00:39:15,708
I, because I was terrified

1340
00:39:15,708 --> 00:39:17,083
and I was just like, you

1341
00:39:17,083 --> 00:39:18,833
know, by that point I had

1342
00:39:18,833 --> 00:39:19,750
already been to Yale.

1343
00:39:19,833 --> 00:39:20,458
I had already been

1344
00:39:20,458 --> 00:39:20,875
recognized.

1345
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:21,875
I'd already been in news,

1346
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,791
like, like in news outlets.

1347
00:39:23,958 --> 00:39:25,875
So like the idea of having to

1348
00:39:25,875 --> 00:39:28,750
re-educate my community now

1349
00:39:28,750 --> 00:39:30,541
with a new brand's name was

1350
00:39:30,541 --> 00:39:31,750
very daunting to me.

1351
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,583
So I was able to ultimately

1352
00:39:34,583 --> 00:39:35,791
get the registration for

1353
00:39:35,791 --> 00:39:36,625
First Generation Purpose

1354
00:39:36,625 --> 00:39:37,333
Project, but I remember

1355
00:39:37,333 --> 00:39:41,041
thinking, I need to do

1356
00:39:41,041 --> 00:39:42,666
business better.

1357
00:39:43,208 --> 00:39:44,958
And I also want to take my

1358
00:39:44,958 --> 00:39:46,125
experience and teach other

1359
00:39:46,125 --> 00:39:47,791
people how to do business

1360
00:39:47,791 --> 00:39:48,125
better.

1361
00:39:48,583 --> 00:39:49,708
And this is why when we first

1362
00:39:49,708 --> 00:39:50,500
launched Firm for the

1363
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:52,208
Culture, we said, we're

1364
00:39:52,208 --> 00:39:53,291
social entrepreneurs helping

1365
00:39:53,291 --> 00:39:54,791
social entrepreneurs, like

1366
00:39:54,791 --> 00:39:57,125
we're, we're impact makers

1367
00:39:57,125 --> 00:39:58,833
helping you not go through

1368
00:39:58,833 --> 00:40:01,250
the journey that almost I

1369
00:40:01,250 --> 00:40:02,875
made our own impact.

1370
00:40:03,416 --> 00:40:04,083
Yeah.

1371
00:40:04,541 --> 00:40:06,291
Well, and I, I love the fact

1372
00:40:06,291 --> 00:40:08,791
that your brand is whatever

1373
00:40:08,791 --> 00:40:11,416
the, your brand and also how

1374
00:40:11,416 --> 00:40:13,875
as a client I've interacted

1375
00:40:13,875 --> 00:40:16,833
with you is what is, is like

1376
00:40:16,833 --> 00:40:18,333
1% legal.

1377
00:40:18,750 --> 00:40:20,958
Like how people think about

1378
00:40:20,958 --> 00:40:22,208
sort of the legal process

1379
00:40:22,208 --> 00:40:23,750
and, and, and interacting

1380
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:25,291
with lawyers and sort of the,

1381
00:40:25,791 --> 00:40:28,333
the, all of the things that

1382
00:40:28,333 --> 00:40:30,458
go with that, this, it

1383
00:40:30,458 --> 00:40:32,416
doesn't, it doesn't feel like

1384
00:40:32,416 --> 00:40:33,541
a legal process.

1385
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:35,375
It feels like working on a

1386
00:40:35,375 --> 00:40:37,333
project, a social brand

1387
00:40:37,333 --> 00:40:37,916
project.

1388
00:40:38,291 --> 00:40:38,458
Yeah.

1389
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:39,166
Yeah.

1390
00:40:39,250 --> 00:40:40,500
Which is, which is great.

1391
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:41,583
And that's the biggest compliment ever.

1392
00:40:41,583 --> 00:40:43,000
That's the biggest compliment

1393
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,291
ever because a couple of

1394
00:40:45,291 --> 00:40:45,791
reasons.

1395
00:40:46,083 --> 00:40:48,458
The first one is,

1396
00:40:50,291 --> 00:40:53,541
it’s because of how I show up in a

1397
00:40:53,541 --> 00:40:56,291
non-legal, non-esoteric

1398
00:40:56,291 --> 00:40:57,291
accessible way.

1399
00:40:57,875 --> 00:41:00,375
That was actually the reason

1400
00:41:00,375 --> 00:41:01,666
why I wanted to quit being an

1401
00:41:01,666 --> 00:41:02,333
attorney.

1402
00:41:03,250 --> 00:41:04,500
Because although I've been,

1403
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:05,416
I've been privileged to

1404
00:41:05,416 --> 00:41:07,666
navigate pretty elite spaces,

1405
00:41:07,666 --> 00:41:10,416
I never really felt like an

1406
00:41:10,416 --> 00:41:11,666
attorney in the traditional

1407
00:41:11,666 --> 00:41:12,250
sense.

1408
00:41:12,791 --> 00:41:13,958
Like I, I was never the

1409
00:41:13,958 --> 00:41:14,916
person that was like crossing

1410
00:41:14,916 --> 00:41:16,666
my arms with like the, the

1411
00:41:16,666 --> 00:41:17,625
justice symbols in the

1412
00:41:17,625 --> 00:41:19,500
background with the gavel

1413
00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:21,708
and, you know, saying, we're

1414
00:41:21,708 --> 00:41:22,458
going to fight for you.

1415
00:41:23,250 --> 00:41:24,708
Like I was never that person.

1416
00:41:26,333 --> 00:41:28,541
And because I wasn't that

1417
00:41:28,541 --> 00:41:31,208
person and because I also am

1418
00:41:31,208 --> 00:41:32,833
like utilitarian in a sense

1419
00:41:32,833 --> 00:41:35,208
of, I'm not just exploring

1420
00:41:35,208 --> 00:41:37,041
the law just because it's

1421
00:41:37,041 --> 00:41:37,958
something I'm like really

1422
00:41:37,958 --> 00:41:38,500
interested in.

1423
00:41:38,583 --> 00:41:40,000
I'm exploring the law in

1424
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,166
relation to some sort of

1425
00:41:42,166 --> 00:41:43,625
social justice or impact

1426
00:41:43,625 --> 00:41:44,208
initiative.

1427
00:41:44,375 --> 00:41:45,666
It's like, I want to figure

1428
00:41:45,666 --> 00:41:48,166
out how to get clients like

1429
00:41:48,166 --> 00:41:49,750
Kyle more trademark

1430
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:50,208
protection.

1431
00:41:50,458 --> 00:41:51,250
That's why I'm doing this

1432
00:41:51,250 --> 00:41:52,750
research, not because, Oh,

1433
00:41:52,791 --> 00:41:54,500
I'm just very interested in

1434
00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:55,375
trademarks in general.

1435
00:41:55,541 --> 00:41:57,291
Like that was never my thing.

1436
00:41:57,375 --> 00:41:58,958
So when I would run into

1437
00:41:58,958 --> 00:42:00,541
people who were more academic

1438
00:42:00,541 --> 00:42:02,375
with the law, so to speak, I

1439
00:42:02,375 --> 00:42:03,708
would, which was a lot of

1440
00:42:03,708 --> 00:42:04,958
people at a place like

1441
00:42:04,958 --> 00:42:08,041
Berkeley, I would oftentimes

1442
00:42:08,041 --> 00:42:09,833
think I don't belong here.

1443
00:42:09,916 --> 00:42:11,583
Like, this is like, I don't

1444
00:42:11,583 --> 00:42:12,708
belong in this space.

1445
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:15,000
And the second reason why I

1446
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,041
say this is a compliment is

1447
00:42:18,041 --> 00:42:19,083
because when I first started

1448
00:42:19,083 --> 00:42:19,875
at a firm for the culture,

1449
00:42:20,625 --> 00:42:22,291
and spoke to website

1450
00:42:22,291 --> 00:42:24,333
designers and people to help

1451
00:42:24,333 --> 00:42:26,416
me build my proposals, they

1452
00:42:26,416 --> 00:42:28,791
oftentimes wanted to make the

1453
00:42:28,791 --> 00:42:30,958
website, the gavels and the

1454
00:42:30,958 --> 00:42:33,208
symbols of justice and all

1455
00:42:33,208 --> 00:42:33,708
that stuff.

1456
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:34,458
And I was just like, I

1457
00:42:34,458 --> 00:42:35,750
absolutely don't want

1458
00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:38,416
anything around any of that.

1459
00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:40,291
Like I don't want even a

1460
00:42:40,291 --> 00:42:40,541
gavel.

1461
00:42:40,666 --> 00:42:41,083
I love that.

1462
00:42:41,291 --> 00:42:41,500
Yeah.

1463
00:42:41,666 --> 00:42:42,666
It's such a good decision.

1464
00:42:43,875 --> 00:42:46,291
Too many people are like

1465
00:42:46,291 --> 00:42:47,583
I'm in the medical.

1466
00:42:47,791 --> 00:42:48,125
profession.

1467
00:42:48,500 --> 00:42:49,708
So I'm going to find people

1468
00:42:49,708 --> 00:42:50,708
who are experienced in

1469
00:42:50,708 --> 00:42:52,166
building medical websites.

1470
00:42:52,583 --> 00:42:54,083
And all we do is just compare

1471
00:42:54,083 --> 00:42:55,041
all the other medical

1472
00:42:55,041 --> 00:42:56,791
websites and try and make it

1473
00:42:56,791 --> 00:42:59,208
just slightly better than the

1474
00:42:59,208 --> 00:43:00,833
next medical website right

1475
00:43:00,833 --> 00:43:01,458
next to you.

1476
00:43:01,458 --> 00:43:03,250
Exactly.
And it didn't differentiate.

1477
00:43:04,125 --> 00:43:05,875
And I knew I had to make a

1478
00:43:05,875 --> 00:43:08,166
decision earlier because of

1479
00:43:08,166 --> 00:43:09,666
the way California laws are.

1480
00:43:09,791 --> 00:43:12,875
California laws, when it

1481
00:43:12,875 --> 00:43:15,458
comes to licensing, at least

1482
00:43:15,500 --> 00:43:16,708
at being a licensed attorney,

1483
00:43:16,958 --> 00:43:19,333
is the hardest bar to pass,

1484
00:43:19,416 --> 00:43:20,625
but it's one of the easiest

1485
00:43:20,625 --> 00:43:22,625
bar licenses to lose because

1486
00:43:22,625 --> 00:43:24,833
of its crazy ethical rules.

1487
00:43:27,916 --> 00:43:30,875
So one rule, so to speak, is

1488
00:43:30,875 --> 00:43:34,541
I can't have a DBA, so to

1489
00:43:34,541 --> 00:43:35,833
speak, of my law firm.

1490
00:43:36,958 --> 00:43:40,208
The name that I attach to my

1491
00:43:40,208 --> 00:43:41,250
law firm has to be the only

1492
00:43:41,250 --> 00:43:41,541
name.

1493
00:43:41,625 --> 00:43:44,416
So unlike other states where

1494
00:43:44,416 --> 00:43:46,500
they can say the Law Offices

1495
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:48,083
of Kyle Hudson, the Law

1496
00:43:48,083 --> 00:43:49,541
Offices of Rupayat Khashoggi,

1497
00:43:50,041 --> 00:43:52,250
it either had to be the Law

1498
00:43:52,250 --> 00:43:54,666
Offices of XYZ or Firm for

1499
00:43:54,666 --> 00:43:55,125
the Culture.

1500
00:43:55,833 --> 00:43:56,875
It couldn't be both.

1501
00:43:57,750 --> 00:43:59,291
So that was like, I had to

1502
00:43:59,291 --> 00:44:00,708
commit.

1503
00:44:02,166 --> 00:44:04,041
And I remember feeling crazy.

1504
00:44:05,708 --> 00:44:07,500
Again, this whole journey.

1505
00:44:08,041 --> 00:44:09,666
And if nothing else, if the

1506
00:44:09,666 --> 00:44:10,708
listeners take nothing else

1507
00:44:10,708 --> 00:44:12,708
from this, I hope that they

1508
00:44:12,708 --> 00:44:14,750
understand that feeling crazy

1509
00:44:14,750 --> 00:44:17,250
is not a rebuke of your

1510
00:44:17,250 --> 00:44:17,791
purpose.

1511
00:44:18,208 --> 00:44:19,041
Feeling like you're

1512
00:44:19,041 --> 00:44:20,958
absolutely losing your mind

1513
00:44:20,958 --> 00:44:23,416
doesn't mean that you need to

1514
00:44:23,416 --> 00:44:23,916
stop.

1515
00:44:25,208 --> 00:44:28,791
It more likely means this is

1516
00:44:28,791 --> 00:44:29,666
an amazing idea.

1517
00:44:29,791 --> 00:44:30,791
No one has ever really done

1518
00:44:30,791 --> 00:44:31,000
it.

1519
00:44:31,291 --> 00:44:33,000
And it's really cool to kind

1520
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,125
of work through that.

1521
00:44:34,291 --> 00:44:35,500
So get the village around you

1522
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:36,791
so you can work through those

1523
00:44:36,791 --> 00:44:38,083
thoughts because you're going

1524
00:44:38,083 --> 00:44:38,750
to feel crazy.

1525
00:44:40,291 --> 00:44:40,625
There are moments, though,

1526
00:44:40,708 --> 00:44:41,333
when you feel like you're

1527
00:44:41,333 --> 00:44:41,583
crazy.

1528
00:44:41,791 --> 00:44:44,541
And I can totally sympathize

1529
00:44:44,541 --> 00:44:45,250
with this because I've talked

1530
00:44:45,250 --> 00:44:46,666
to so many people now who

1531
00:44:46,666 --> 00:44:48,208
sort of want to put what

1532
00:44:48,208 --> 00:44:49,791
we're building in a in like a

1533
00:44:49,791 --> 00:44:52,250
real nice, neat box that is

1534
00:44:52,250 --> 00:44:53,500
very similar to something

1535
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:54,750
that's already been built.

1536
00:44:54,875 --> 00:44:55,708
I'm like, no, don't do that.

1537
00:44:55,833 --> 00:44:56,666
Get me out of this box.

1538
00:44:56,750 --> 00:44:57,416
I don't want to be in this

1539
00:44:57,416 --> 00:44:57,708
box.

1540
00:44:58,333 --> 00:45:00,750
I imagine that you still,

1541
00:45:00,916 --> 00:45:02,500
even if you felt crazy or it

1542
00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:03,625
was stressful or whatever,

1543
00:45:03,833 --> 00:45:06,333
that you still had this sort

1544
00:45:06,333 --> 00:45:09,333
of quiet resolution of this

1545
00:45:09,333 --> 00:45:11,000
feeling that like you were

1546
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,208
headed down the right path,

1547
00:45:12,250 --> 00:45:13,625
even if it's like a difficult

1548
00:45:13,625 --> 00:45:15,291
path or like that.

1549
00:45:15,625 --> 00:45:17,958
Did you ever feel like I'm

1550
00:45:17,958 --> 00:45:20,708
really unsure and I feel

1551
00:45:20,708 --> 00:45:22,208
lost, but I'm just going to

1552
00:45:22,208 --> 00:45:22,666
keep going?

1553
00:45:22,791 --> 00:45:24,708
Or did you still feel like

1554
00:45:24,708 --> 00:45:26,500
you had that quiet voice of

1555
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:28,291
like, no, it's difficult.

1556
00:45:28,416 --> 00:45:29,208
I'm not sure if this is the

1557
00:45:29,208 --> 00:45:30,125
right thing, but there's

1558
00:45:30,125 --> 00:45:31,333
something underlying, which

1559
00:45:31,333 --> 00:45:33,166
is just like, no, just keep

1560
00:45:33,166 --> 00:45:33,375
going.

1561
00:45:33,458 --> 00:45:34,375
This is, this is right.

1562
00:45:34,583 --> 00:45:35,416
It was definitely the latter.

1563
00:45:35,833 --> 00:45:39,500
It was definitely some, some

1564
00:45:39,500 --> 00:45:41,791
like existential reassurance

1565
00:45:41,791 --> 00:45:44,416
of the fact that I was going

1566
00:45:44,416 --> 00:45:45,125
down the right path.

1567
00:45:45,208 --> 00:45:47,875
I had one potential client I

1568
00:45:47,875 --> 00:45:50,625
was speaking with before I

1569
00:45:50,625 --> 00:45:52,791
launched Firm for the

1570
00:45:52,791 --> 00:45:53,166
Culture.

1571
00:45:54,083 --> 00:45:56,458
And I remember just like,

1572
00:45:56,666 --> 00:45:57,458
again, it was one of those

1573
00:45:57,458 --> 00:45:58,166
days when I was feeling

1574
00:45:58,166 --> 00:45:58,500
crazy.

1575
00:45:58,708 --> 00:46:00,791
And she said to me, write

1576
00:46:00,791 --> 00:46:01,958
down what you believe God

1577
00:46:01,958 --> 00:46:03,125
told you in the moment that

1578
00:46:03,125 --> 00:46:04,583
you made the decision to

1579
00:46:04,583 --> 00:46:05,916
start this journey.

1580
00:46:06,333 --> 00:46:07,041
Like just write it down,

1581
00:46:07,125 --> 00:46:08,333
write down what you were

1582
00:46:08,333 --> 00:46:09,500
eating, write down how you

1583
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:11,333
felt, write down what God

1584
00:46:11,333 --> 00:46:13,458
said, write down, you know,

1585
00:46:13,583 --> 00:46:14,541
the steps that you took,

1586
00:46:14,791 --> 00:46:15,625
write that down.

1587
00:46:15,875 --> 00:46:17,291
So in the moments where you

1588
00:46:17,291 --> 00:46:18,333
feel like none of this makes

1589
00:46:18,333 --> 00:46:21,000
sense, I don't feel like I have

1590
00:46:23,791 --> 00:46:24,791
I don't feel like I have a

1591
00:46:24,791 --> 00:46:27,041
foundation to, to stand

1592
00:46:27,041 --> 00:46:29,416
on, go back to that journal

1593
00:46:29,416 --> 00:46:31,791
entry and just read it and

1594
00:46:31,791 --> 00:46:33,875
reread it and reread it to

1595
00:46:33,875 --> 00:46:36,000
just remind yourself that you

1596
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,416
know what God's voice sounds

1597
00:46:38,416 --> 00:46:40,125
like, you know, what

1598
00:46:40,125 --> 00:46:42,291
reassurance feels like, you

1599
00:46:42,291 --> 00:46:43,791
know, that at the time you

1600
00:46:43,791 --> 00:46:45,875
heard this small voice, your

1601
00:46:45,875 --> 00:46:48,041
heart rate slowed down, you

1602
00:46:48,041 --> 00:46:50,333
got calmer, you like, right.

1603
00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:52,416
Like make sure you reiterate

1604
00:46:52,416 --> 00:46:54,833
that to yourself so that in

1605
00:46:54,833 --> 00:46:56,666
these moments where it feels

1606
00:46:56,666 --> 00:46:57,625
crazy, you can continue

1607
00:46:57,625 --> 00:46:58,750
trusting yourself.

1608
00:47:00,083 --> 00:47:04,291
I luckily was able to capture

1609
00:47:04,291 --> 00:47:04,958
mine.

1610
00:47:05,500 --> 00:47:06,708
Oh, Yay.

1611
00:47:07,458 --> 00:47:09,333
So you had a moment like that

1612
00:47:09,333 --> 00:47:09,791
as well.

1613
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,791
So I had a moment and let me

1614
00:47:12,791 --> 00:47:14,541
see if I can.

1615
00:47:14,583 --> 00:47:15,708
I wish I recorded myself.

1616
00:47:15,958 --> 00:47:17,125
I got to look back to see if

1617
00:47:17,125 --> 00:47:18,333
I like vlogged or anything,

1618
00:47:18,750 --> 00:47:19,041
but.

1619
00:47:19,250 --> 00:47:20,583
It's so interesting doing it

1620
00:47:20,583 --> 00:47:21,875
on something like Instagram

1621
00:47:21,875 --> 00:47:24,583
where I obviously have the

1622
00:47:24,833 --> 00:47:26,416
time and the day and all that

1623
00:47:26,416 --> 00:47:26,916
sort of stuff.

1624
00:47:27,208 --> 00:47:29,666
So I had just gotten off of a

1625
00:47:29,666 --> 00:47:32,708
call and I had spent, I've

1626
00:47:32,708 --> 00:47:33,958
spent a while sort of

1627
00:47:33,958 --> 00:47:35,708
refining how I talk about it

1628
00:47:35,708 --> 00:47:37,875
and, and how I talk about

1629
00:47:37,875 --> 00:47:38,916
Stacklist and the journey,

1630
00:47:39,041 --> 00:47:41,208
what it is and, and, and was,

1631
00:47:41,666 --> 00:47:42,666
there was something on that

1632
00:47:42,666 --> 00:47:44,416
call that I felt so confident

1633
00:47:44,416 --> 00:47:45,291
post pitch.

1634
00:47:45,458 --> 00:47:47,000
I think I had actually, I'd

1635
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,708
met with an investor and I

1636
00:47:48,708 --> 00:47:51,125
did the demo and it was a 15

1637
00:47:51,125 --> 00:47:52,250
minute call and I did the

1638
00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:54,166
demo in six minutes and I did

1639
00:47:54,166 --> 00:47:56,166
the deck in six minutes and I

1640
00:47:56,166 --> 00:47:58,458
had two minutes left over and

1641
00:47:58,458 --> 00:48:00,041
the investor had no questions

1642
00:48:00,041 --> 00:48:01,208
and I was like, sounds great.

1643
00:48:01,458 --> 00:48:02,166
It was good meeting you.

1644
00:48:02,708 --> 00:48:05,041
And like, it was so on point

1645
00:48:05,041 --> 00:48:08,041
that after I got done, like

1646
00:48:08,041 --> 00:48:11,500
my hand was just like, you

1647
00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:13,250
know, I just, oh, and I, and

1648
00:48:13,250 --> 00:48:14,208
the hairs on the back of my

1649
00:48:14,208 --> 00:48:16,125
neck, like, I just felt like,

1650
00:48:16,208 --> 00:48:18,250
oh my gosh, this is, and it

1651
00:48:18,250 --> 00:48:19,166
was one of those things

1652
00:48:19,166 --> 00:48:21,916
where, where it was a good

1653
00:48:21,916 --> 00:48:23,791
physical manifestation of

1654
00:48:23,791 --> 00:48:24,125
that.

1655
00:48:24,583 --> 00:48:27,250
Like I'm not, I have zero

1656
00:48:27,250 --> 00:48:29,583
questions about if this is

1657
00:48:29,583 --> 00:48:31,208
like the path that I'm

1658
00:48:31,208 --> 00:48:32,041
supposed to be on.

1659
00:48:34,416 --> 00:48:36,000
This is it, like, this is the

1660
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,791
thing and I'm on this journey

1661
00:48:37,791 --> 00:48:39,000
and I'm not like, I don't,

1662
00:48:39,166 --> 00:48:40,333
you know, I don't wake up

1663
00:48:40,333 --> 00:48:41,291
every day going, I don't

1664
00:48:41,291 --> 00:48:42,791
know, maybe, you know, maybe

1665
00:48:42,791 --> 00:48:43,625
I should find something.

1666
00:48:43,791 --> 00:48:45,625
Like it doesn't, it's just

1667
00:48:45,625 --> 00:48:48,541
clear resolution, like to the

1668
00:48:48,541 --> 00:48:50,041
bone, which is crazy.

1669
00:48:50,666 --> 00:48:50,833
Yeah.

1670
00:48:51,083 --> 00:48:54,208
And I'm sure like you, like

1671
00:48:54,208 --> 00:48:57,000
you, Kyle, like you've

1672
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,250
probably sought out people

1673
00:48:58,250 --> 00:49:01,166
who were successful in a

1674
00:49:01,166 --> 00:49:02,625
somewhat similar endeavor,

1675
00:49:03,166 --> 00:49:03,541
right?

1676
00:49:04,583 --> 00:49:07,208
And part of, and I think like

1677
00:49:07,208 --> 00:49:07,875
you, and this is why I

1678
00:49:07,875 --> 00:49:09,083
appreciate clients like you,

1679
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:10,666
like we weren't just like,

1680
00:49:10,666 --> 00:49:11,541
you know, running off the

1681
00:49:11,541 --> 00:49:12,166
seat of our pants.

1682
00:49:12,166 --> 00:49:13,791
Like we were really like,

1683
00:49:13,833 --> 00:49:15,125
there was some, you know,

1684
00:49:15,333 --> 00:49:16,958
empirical evidence backing

1685
00:49:16,958 --> 00:49:17,375
up.

1686
00:49:18,625 --> 00:49:20,750
So I did market research

1687
00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:22,125
before I even launched Firm

1688
00:49:22,125 --> 00:49:22,666
for the Culture.

1689
00:49:23,333 --> 00:49:24,083
And one of the main reasons

1690
00:49:24,083 --> 00:49:26,166
why I decided to focus on

1691
00:49:26,166 --> 00:49:28,333
social impact founders and

1692
00:49:28,333 --> 00:49:30,333
entrepreneurs was because

1693
00:49:30,333 --> 00:49:32,625
initially, and as much as I

1694
00:49:32,625 --> 00:49:33,791
love identifying as a

1695
00:49:33,791 --> 00:49:35,583
first-gen everything, they

1696
00:49:35,583 --> 00:49:36,833
weren't my ideal client

1697
00:49:36,833 --> 00:49:39,041
avatar from my

1698
00:49:39,041 --> 00:49:40,541
interviews that I did with

1699
00:49:40,541 --> 00:49:41,041
people.

1700
00:49:41,333 --> 00:49:42,583
Like if I'm doing interviews

1701
00:49:42,583 --> 00:49:43,375
with people and they're like,

1702
00:49:43,416 --> 00:49:44,291
I absolutely would not pay

1703
00:49:44,291 --> 00:49:46,791
that much for your services,

1704
00:49:46,791 --> 00:49:49,291
then you probably aren't my

1705
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:51,041
avatar.

1706
00:49:51,166 --> 00:49:53,916
And also a lot of,

1707
00:49:54,250 --> 00:49:56,416
social impact orgs at the

1708
00:49:56,416 --> 00:49:57,916
time, social impact was a

1709
00:49:57,916 --> 00:49:58,875
huge thing.

1710
00:49:59,333 --> 00:50:00,666
Brain washing was also a huge

1711
00:50:00,666 --> 00:50:03,333
thing, but in the Silicon

1712
00:50:03,333 --> 00:50:06,125
Valley, a bunch of

1713
00:50:06,125 --> 00:50:09,250
entrepreneurs were really

1714
00:50:09,250 --> 00:50:10,416
trying to figure out how to

1715
00:50:10,416 --> 00:50:12,125
balance profit and purpose.

1716
00:50:12,833 --> 00:50:15,208
There was also a Stanford

1717
00:50:15,208 --> 00:50:18,583
innovation article around how

1718
00:50:18,583 --> 00:50:20,791
lucrative social impact work

1719
00:50:20,791 --> 00:50:21,875
was becoming in the tech

1720
00:50:21,875 --> 00:50:22,375
space.

1721
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,458
There was also a Deloitte

1722
00:50:24,458 --> 00:50:28,000
study that said that more

1723
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,125
millennials and Gen Zs are

1724
00:50:30,125 --> 00:50:31,958
actually leaving large

1725
00:50:31,958 --> 00:50:34,958
corporate spaces in order to

1726
00:50:34,958 --> 00:50:36,791
either start their own thing

1727
00:50:36,791 --> 00:50:38,666
or go for another position

1728
00:50:38,666 --> 00:50:39,875
that truly incorporates

1729
00:50:39,875 --> 00:50:40,750
social impact work.

1730
00:50:41,083 --> 00:50:43,125
So I just knew that like

1731
00:50:43,125 --> 00:50:45,083
there was actual evidence to

1732
00:50:45,083 --> 00:50:47,625
back up the journey that I

1733
00:50:47,625 --> 00:50:50,708
was taking myself on.

1734
00:50:52,750 --> 00:50:54,500
So it wasn't just a matter

1735
00:50:54,500 --> 00:50:55,625
of, Oh, I'm just going to

1736
00:50:55,625 --> 00:50:56,541
kind of feel it out.

1737
00:50:56,875 --> 00:50:57,125
Yes.

1738
00:50:57,708 --> 00:50:58,833
Trusting myself in this

1739
00:50:58,833 --> 00:51:00,416
process was important, but

1740
00:51:00,416 --> 00:51:02,125
also having the hard concrete

1741
00:51:02,125 --> 00:51:05,291
evidence and also paying for

1742
00:51:05,291 --> 00:51:05,875
coaching.

1743
00:51:06,458 --> 00:51:08,125
That was something that like,

1744
00:51:08,291 --> 00:51:10,458
I did not want to try to

1745
00:51:10,458 --> 00:51:11,416
figure this out by myself.

1746
00:51:11,416 --> 00:51:12,708
That was like not a thing for

1747
00:51:12,708 --> 00:51:12,875
me.

1748
00:51:12,875 --> 00:51:15,375
Like I was willing to pay, I

1749
00:51:15,375 --> 00:51:16,416
think at the time, like

1750
00:51:16,416 --> 00:51:17,833
upwards of like 20K or

1751
00:51:17,833 --> 00:51:18,916
something for coaching.

1752
00:51:19,375 --> 00:51:20,416
It was expensive.

1753
00:51:21,125 --> 00:51:22,750
It was not, you know, but I

1754
00:51:22,750 --> 00:51:23,291
was committed.

1755
00:51:24,708 --> 00:51:25,083
I was committed.

1756
00:51:25,125 --> 00:51:26,666
I had to make this work.

1757
00:51:27,250 --> 00:51:28,041
At the very least, I had to

1758
00:51:28,041 --> 00:51:29,000
get my money back, right?

1759
00:51:29,250 --> 00:51:31,000
Like, like, yeah, even if I,

1760
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:31,666
yeah.

1761
00:51:32,416 --> 00:51:33,708
Big advocate of coaching.

1762
00:51:33,791 --> 00:51:34,708
And it was one that I'm

1763
00:51:34,708 --> 00:51:37,083
actually working with Andrew

1764
00:51:37,083 --> 00:51:39,958
Chen of, you know, Uber.

1765
00:51:41,083 --> 00:51:43,583
He did Uber growth in San

1766
00:51:43,583 --> 00:51:45,208
Fran when, you know, under

1767
00:51:45,208 --> 00:51:46,625
Travis and, and wrote the

1768
00:51:46,625 --> 00:51:47,416
cold start problem.

1769
00:51:47,708 --> 00:51:49,375
And, and I, I feel like

1770
00:51:49,375 --> 00:51:50,708
coaching is such a hack when

1771
00:51:50,708 --> 00:51:51,958
you find the right person

1772
00:51:51,958 --> 00:51:55,041
that on our second call,

1773
00:51:55,166 --> 00:51:56,291
we're talking about investing

1774
00:51:56,291 --> 00:51:57,250
and he's going, no, no, no,

1775
00:51:57,291 --> 00:51:57,333
no.

1776
00:51:57,375 --> 00:51:58,041
Here's what you need to do.

1777
00:51:58,125 --> 00:51:58,916
And here's how it does.

1778
00:51:59,041 --> 00:52:00,333
And, and here's how like, and

1779
00:52:00,333 --> 00:52:02,833
so you get a partner at A16

1780
00:52:02,833 --> 00:52:04,416
being like, here's how things

1781
00:52:04,416 --> 00:52:04,916
need to go.

1782
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:05,791
And here's how you should

1783
00:52:05,791 --> 00:52:06,208
approach the.

1784
00:52:06,208 --> 00:52:07,041
this, all of a sudden you're

1785
00:52:07,041 --> 00:52:10,500
like, yeah, like now I know

1786
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:11,333
how to, you know, and you

1787
00:52:11,333 --> 00:52:12,333
have so much more confidence

1788
00:52:12,333 --> 00:52:13,666
that you're not just sort of

1789
00:52:13,666 --> 00:52:15,375
like rattling around these

1790
00:52:15,375 --> 00:52:16,083
things in your head.

1791
00:52:16,166 --> 00:52:17,125
And then when you go to meet

1792
00:52:17,125 --> 00:52:19,083
with someone, you know, who,

1793
00:52:19,333 --> 00:52:20,833
who you're asking for money

1794
00:52:20,833 --> 00:52:22,708
for, you're not coming from a

1795
00:52:22,708 --> 00:52:24,208
position of like, okay, I

1796
00:52:24,208 --> 00:52:25,625
promise we're going to do

1797
00:52:25,625 --> 00:52:25,958
great.

1798
00:52:26,083 --> 00:52:27,375
I'm going to try hard or

1799
00:52:27,375 --> 00:52:28,041
whatever that you're

1800
00:52:28,041 --> 00:52:30,041
actually, you've got, you've

1801
00:52:30,041 --> 00:52:31,625
got outside evidence from,

1802
00:52:31,791 --> 00:52:34,625
from other people, is huge.

1803
00:52:34,625 --> 00:52:35,625
Not only do you have outside

1804
00:52:35,625 --> 00:52:36,791
evidence, you also have those

1805
00:52:36,791 --> 00:52:38,916
relationships, right?

1806
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,125
Like the Silicon Valley, I

1807
00:52:40,125 --> 00:52:41,958
would say more than, or

1808
00:52:41,958 --> 00:52:43,708
venture capital more than a

1809
00:52:43,708 --> 00:52:44,458
lot of other industries.

1810
00:52:44,458 --> 00:52:45,500
Your relationships truly

1811
00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:45,791
matter.

1812
00:52:45,916 --> 00:52:48,125
Those warm intros are like

1813
00:52:48,125 --> 00:52:49,666
everything that can be the

1814
00:52:49,666 --> 00:52:50,833
difference between a really

1815
00:52:50,833 --> 00:52:53,833
successful a series A and

1816
00:52:53,833 --> 00:52:55,375
you, you know, shutting the

1817
00:52:55,375 --> 00:52:56,916
doors and selling your

1818
00:52:56,916 --> 00:52:57,583
business.

1819
00:52:58,250 --> 00:53:00,458
So, it's really,

1820
00:53:02,916 --> 00:53:03,458
I'm glad that

1821
00:53:03,458 --> 00:53:04,833
you also see the value of

1822
00:53:04,833 --> 00:53:06,666
coaching and, and that also

1823
00:53:06,666 --> 00:53:08,166
speaks to my ideal client

1824
00:53:08,166 --> 00:53:08,458
avatar, people who see the

1825
00:53:08,458 --> 00:53:09,458
avatar, people who see the

1826
00:53:09,458 --> 00:53:11,458
value of investing in their

1827
00:53:11,458 --> 00:53:14,625
business so that this is a

1828
00:53:14,625 --> 00:53:16,458
endeavor because trademarks,

1829
00:53:16,666 --> 00:53:17,791
the process is two years

1830
00:53:17,791 --> 00:53:18,666
long, copyright is about

1831
00:53:18,666 --> 00:53:19,625
long, copyright is about

1832
00:53:19,625 --> 00:53:20,375
eight months long.

1833
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:22,791
So they see this as, oh, this

1834
00:53:22,791 --> 00:53:24,000
is an investment into my

1835
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,000
business as opposed, as

1836
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,541
opposed to, oh, this is just

1837
00:53:26,541 --> 00:53:28,708
a huge cost center, right?

1838
00:53:29,166 --> 00:53:30,958
So what's, what's next down

1839
00:53:30,958 --> 00:53:32,250
the line for like, where do

1840
00:53:32,250 --> 00:53:32,916
you, where do you want to

1841
00:53:32,916 --> 00:53:33,833
take firm for the culture?

1842
00:53:34,625 --> 00:53:36,291
Well, I'm celebrating my

1843
00:53:36,291 --> 00:53:38,708
fifth year in full time entrepreneurship.

1844
00:53:39,458 --> 00:53:42,458
I do, I do virtual high five.

1845
00:53:42,708 --> 00:53:43,250
There you go.

1846
00:53:43,416 --> 00:53:44,208
Right back at you.

1847
00:53:44,625 --> 00:53:46,750
So November 9th, 2024

1848
00:53:46,750 --> 00:53:48,083
will be my fifth full year as

1849
00:53:48,083 --> 00:53:48,625
an entrepreneur.

1850
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:50,000
And that is crazy.

1851
00:53:52,583 --> 00:53:55,083
And I do want to, I was

1852
00:53:55,083 --> 00:53:55,458
And I do want to, I was

1853
00:53:55,458 --> 00:53:56,375
thinking about like just

1854
00:53:56,375 --> 00:53:57,916
growing my team more.

1855
00:53:58,041 --> 00:53:59,250
And I do think that that is

1856
00:53:59,250 --> 00:54:01,208
definitely a endeavor, uh,

1857
00:54:01,333 --> 00:54:02,291
that's worthwhile.

1858
00:54:02,708 --> 00:54:05,750
But I also want to kind of

1859
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:08,416
make our services a lot more

1860
00:54:08,416 --> 00:54:10,250
holistic and robust for our

1861
00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:11,125
clients.

1862
00:54:11,458 --> 00:54:14,125
So a lot of our clients are

1863
00:54:14,125 --> 00:54:16,833
doing TED talks are

1864
00:54:16,875 --> 00:54:19,041
going on, like when you

1865
00:54:19,041 --> 00:54:20,208
speak, when you shop from the

1866
00:54:20,208 --> 00:54:21,625
rooftops, your social impact,

1867
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:22,916
you're sure to get noticed.

1868
00:54:23,500 --> 00:54:24,375
A lot of our clients are

1869
00:54:24,375 --> 00:54:25,125
getting book deals.

1870
00:54:25,333 --> 00:54:27,958
A lot of our clients are,

1871
00:54:28,083 --> 00:54:29,291
one of our clients,

1872
00:54:29,458 --> 00:54:30,875
their story is being

1873
00:54:30,875 --> 00:54:33,333
made into, a movie.

1874
00:54:33,541 --> 00:54:36,166
So I want to be able to

1875
00:54:36,166 --> 00:54:38,666
really expand our offerings

1876
00:54:38,666 --> 00:54:42,333
to grow with our clients as

1877
00:54:42,333 --> 00:54:43,666
they continue in their social

1878
00:54:43,666 --> 00:54:44,625
impact endeavors.

1879
00:54:45,916 --> 00:54:48,500
So one of the ways that I've

1880
00:54:48,500 --> 00:54:50,541
realized to do that is not

1881
00:54:50,541 --> 00:54:52,541
simply, just following

1882
00:54:52,541 --> 00:54:53,666
our clients journey, which is

1883
00:54:53,666 --> 00:54:56,125
definitely part of the part

1884
00:54:56,125 --> 00:54:58,291
of how we do this, but also

1885
00:54:58,291 --> 00:55:00,500
finding different ways to

1886
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:01,916
remain in constant

1887
00:55:01,916 --> 00:55:03,000
communication with our

1888
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:04,708
clients, which is why I say,

1889
00:55:04,833 --> 00:55:05,875
I don't want our clients to

1890
00:55:05,875 --> 00:55:06,416
feel like they're being

1891
00:55:06,416 --> 00:55:07,500
pushed through an automation,

1892
00:55:07,833 --> 00:55:08,625
right?

1893
00:55:08,958 --> 00:55:11,500
So one way that we are really

1894
00:55:11,500 --> 00:55:12,750
exploring, actually, there's

1895
00:55:12,750 --> 00:55:13,208
two ways.

1896
00:55:13,458 --> 00:55:15,166
One way is, coworking

1897
00:55:15,166 --> 00:55:15,666
sessions.

1898
00:55:16,458 --> 00:55:18,583
So, a lot of our clients,

1899
00:55:18,750 --> 00:55:20,541
start off, start off as

1900
00:55:20,541 --> 00:55:22,291
solopreneurs and being a

1901
00:55:22,291 --> 00:55:24,041
solopreneur is lonely.

1902
00:55:24,166 --> 00:55:26,791
So to be able to, you know,

1903
00:55:26,791 --> 00:55:28,208
spend one or two hours a week

1904
00:55:28,208 --> 00:55:30,125
with like 13 or 14 other

1905
00:55:30,125 --> 00:55:31,875
founders just to get work

1906
00:55:31,875 --> 00:55:34,375
done is a game changer.

1907
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:36,375
So really exploring that is

1908
00:55:36,375 --> 00:55:37,125
going to be part of our

1909
00:55:37,125 --> 00:55:37,875
business model.

1910
00:55:38,750 --> 00:55:41,125
And then also, because at

1911
00:55:41,125 --> 00:55:42,416
this point we've been able to

1912
00:55:42,416 --> 00:55:45,166
serve over 300 clients, a lot

1913
00:55:45,166 --> 00:55:47,916
of you guys would really,

1914
00:55:48,125 --> 00:55:50,291
really just take off if we

1915
00:55:50,291 --> 00:55:51,458
were to, if we were to find

1916
00:55:51,458 --> 00:55:53,500
some creative way beyond

1917
00:55:53,500 --> 00:55:55,291
simply sending an email to

1918
00:55:55,291 --> 00:55:56,375
have you connect and interact

1919
00:55:56,375 --> 00:55:57,041
with each other.

1920
00:55:57,166 --> 00:55:58,125
So another thing that we're

1921
00:55:58,125 --> 00:55:58,916
going to do is connection

1922
00:55:58,916 --> 00:56:01,125
lunches where we buy both of

1923
00:56:01,125 --> 00:56:03,041
you or four of you, or, you

1924
00:56:03,041 --> 00:56:05,791
know, eight of you, lunch

1925
00:56:05,791 --> 00:56:07,291
through Doordash gift cards,

1926
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:08,875
bring you into zoom and have

1927
00:56:08,875 --> 00:56:10,083
you connect with each other

1928
00:56:10,083 --> 00:56:11,291
in a way that's really

1929
00:56:11,291 --> 00:56:11,833
meaningful.

1930
00:56:12,250 --> 00:56:14,666
So, and those are ways that

1931
00:56:14,666 --> 00:56:16,208
we can continue providing

1932
00:56:16,208 --> 00:56:18,166
value to our clients, even

1933
00:56:18,166 --> 00:56:20,291
beyond intellectual property

1934
00:56:20,291 --> 00:56:20,833
work.

1935
00:56:21,333 --> 00:56:23,125
and then it's in those

1936
00:56:23,125 --> 00:56:24,916
discussions that,

1937
00:56:24,916 --> 00:56:26,000
oftentimes our clients will

1938
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:27,208
say, oh, I have this other

1939
00:56:27,208 --> 00:56:28,041
thing that I'm working on.

1940
00:56:28,041 --> 00:56:28,958
I need to set up a call with

1941
00:56:28,958 --> 00:56:29,166
you.

1942
00:56:29,291 --> 00:56:30,250
And you already know the way

1943
00:56:30,250 --> 00:56:31,333
my automations are set up.

1944
00:56:31,416 --> 00:56:32,625
I'd be like, great here.

1945
00:56:32,833 --> 00:56:33,708
We're going to send you like

1946
00:56:33,708 --> 00:56:35,250
15 reminders and set up a

1947
00:56:35,250 --> 00:56:36,083
call with us.

1948
00:56:36,416 --> 00:56:38,000
And that's how we get you

1949
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:39,166
back into our ecosystem.

1950
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,666
But we want to be able to be

1951
00:56:41,666 --> 00:56:43,916
on your journey, even beyond

1952
00:56:43,916 --> 00:56:46,041
intellectual property

1953
00:56:46,041 --> 00:56:48,250
protection, because IP is not

1954
00:56:48,250 --> 00:56:50,500
necessarily, and I say this

1955
00:56:50,500 --> 00:56:52,625
to our clients, IP is not

1956
00:56:52,625 --> 00:56:53,541
necessarily the be all and

1957
00:56:53,541 --> 00:56:53,958
end all.

1958
00:56:54,041 --> 00:56:56,250
It is a really powerful means

1959
00:56:56,250 --> 00:56:58,125
to help you achieve the

1960
00:56:58,125 --> 00:56:59,208
impact that you want to make.

1961
00:57:01,625 --> 00:57:02,833
Yeah, no, that's great.

1962
00:57:02,916 --> 00:57:03,416
I love that.

1963
00:57:03,625 --> 00:57:05,875
I could also see either Slack

1964
00:57:05,875 --> 00:57:07,000
or Discord groups.

1965
00:57:07,041 --> 00:57:07,666
Yep, yep.

1966
00:57:07,666 --> 00:57:08,041
Also.

1967
00:57:08,375 --> 00:57:08,458
Yep.

1968
00:57:08,541 --> 00:57:09,333
That was another thing.

1969
00:57:09,583 --> 00:57:11,083
The thing about that is I

1970
00:57:11,083 --> 00:57:12,208
want to make sure that by the

1971
00:57:12,208 --> 00:57:13,416
time we do that, we have a

1972
00:57:13,416 --> 00:57:16,333
really robust and dedicated

1973
00:57:16,333 --> 00:57:18,250
community manager because I

1974
00:57:18,250 --> 00:57:19,541
don't want, because I've been

1975
00:57:19,541 --> 00:57:20,958
a part of Slack and Discord

1976
00:57:20,958 --> 00:57:22,166
groups that have just like

1977
00:57:22,166 --> 00:57:25,208
gone like pretty much silent

1978
00:57:25,208 --> 00:57:27,208
because people are not, you

1979
00:57:27,208 --> 00:57:28,208
know, people are not keeping

1980
00:57:28,208 --> 00:57:29,458
them consistent.

1981
00:57:29,708 --> 00:57:30,458
So it's like, I don't want to

1982
00:57:30,458 --> 00:57:32,125
start that if we don't have

1983
00:57:32,125 --> 00:57:33,166
the means to keep it going.

1984
00:57:33,958 --> 00:57:35,000
I've got, I've got some ideas

1985
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:35,333
for you.

1986
00:57:35,416 --> 00:57:36,625
We can, we can chat about

1987
00:57:36,625 --> 00:57:36,833
that.

1988
00:57:36,875 --> 00:57:37,458
Oh, sounds good.

1989
00:57:37,458 --> 00:57:39,583
I think that like, but I

1990
00:57:39,583 --> 00:57:40,000
agree.

1991
00:57:40,083 --> 00:57:41,166
It's one that there are

1992
00:57:41,166 --> 00:57:42,625
groups started up all the

1993
00:57:42,625 --> 00:57:43,916
time, but if you go in there

1994
00:57:43,916 --> 00:57:46,083
and it's kind of quiet.

1995
00:57:46,250 --> 00:57:47,291
And then of course, if you

1996
00:57:47,291 --> 00:57:49,000
post one thing and nobody

1997
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:50,291
sort of responds back, then

1998
00:57:50,291 --> 00:57:50,708
you're out.

1999
00:57:52,125 --> 00:57:53,458
But it is an interesting way

2000
00:57:53,458 --> 00:57:55,083
to be able to, I've had a

2001
00:57:55,083 --> 00:57:57,125
couple, I think even Mercury

2002
00:57:57,125 --> 00:57:59,500
had one where I've met people

2003
00:57:59,500 --> 00:58:00,875
and then I've, I've met him

2004
00:58:00,875 --> 00:58:02,166
in real life and we've, I've,

2005
00:58:02,208 --> 00:58:02,833
I've gotten on their

2006
00:58:02,833 --> 00:58:04,291
newsletter and like, you

2007
00:58:04,291 --> 00:58:05,375
know, and making connections

2008
00:58:05,375 --> 00:58:06,625
like that, especially if

2009
00:58:06,625 --> 00:58:08,000
there are people in, in the

2010
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,916
same sort of space could be

2011
00:58:10,916 --> 00:58:11,958
interesting from a connection

2012
00:58:11,958 --> 00:58:12,541
perspective.

2013
00:58:12,875 --> 00:58:13,041
Absolutely.

2014
00:58:13,291 --> 00:58:14,708
Our goal overall is to really

2015
00:58:14,708 --> 00:58:16,750
create community, a community

2016
00:58:16,750 --> 00:58:19,333
of just like minded and

2017
00:58:19,333 --> 00:58:22,125
dynamic social impact and

2018
00:58:22,125 --> 00:58:24,666
thought leader founders so

2019
00:58:24,666 --> 00:58:25,625
that they can connect with

2020
00:58:25,625 --> 00:58:27,375
and be on each other's

2021
00:58:27,375 --> 00:58:29,291
podcast or go to each other's

2022
00:58:29,291 --> 00:58:30,708
conferences or seminars,

2023
00:58:30,875 --> 00:58:33,041
because we have had the

2024
00:58:33,041 --> 00:58:36,500
privilege of working with and

2025
00:58:36,500 --> 00:58:37,291
supporting the intellectual

2026
00:58:37,291 --> 00:58:40,791
property processes of some of

2027
00:58:40,791 --> 00:58:42,166
the biggest social impact and

2028
00:58:42,166 --> 00:58:43,458
founders and thought leaders

2029
00:58:43,458 --> 00:58:44,541
in our generation.

2030
00:58:45,458 --> 00:58:47,208
And I know that simply

2031
00:58:47,208 --> 00:58:49,583
connecting you all will make

2032
00:58:49,583 --> 00:58:51,000
for more impact, which I'm

2033
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:51,916
very excited about.

2034
00:58:53,166 --> 00:58:55,041
Yeah, well, I'm excited to

2035
00:58:55,041 --> 00:58:56,958
follow along in the Firm for

2036
00:58:56,958 --> 00:58:58,208
the Culture journey and your

2037
00:58:58,208 --> 00:58:59,291
journey, because it

2038
00:58:59,291 --> 00:59:00,125
definitely, you know, it

2039
00:59:00,125 --> 00:59:02,916
sounds like you've,

2040
00:59:02,916 --> 00:59:04,666
found a good way to listen

2041
00:59:04,666 --> 00:59:08,416
and to sort of pivot

2042
00:59:08,416 --> 00:59:09,208
when needed.

2043
00:59:09,208 --> 00:59:11,333
And you're building such a,

2044
00:59:11,458 --> 00:59:14,416
such an amazing ecosystem, I

2045
00:59:14,416 --> 00:59:15,333
think was the word you use,

2046
00:59:15,375 --> 00:59:17,708
which I love, which is, which

2047
00:59:17,708 --> 00:59:18,208
is great.

2048
00:59:19,708 --> 00:59:21,458
And thank you for spending

2049
00:59:21,458 --> 00:59:23,333
time and coming to tell all

2050
00:59:23,333 --> 00:59:23,875
the stories.

2051
00:59:24,041 --> 00:59:24,375
I love them.

2052
00:59:24,500 --> 00:59:25,625
Well, thank you for having me

2053
00:59:26,291 --> 00:59:26,583
Yeah.

2054
00:59:26,875 --> 00:59:28,708
Good seeing you.

2055
00:59:28,750 --> 00:59:29,125
You too.