Perry "Dr. Octopus" Knoppert

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I've been doing this for you people. I've been adjusting myself, so you understand me. I've been adjusting myself. Otherwise I don't fit in.

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So you find me weird and I thought, I don't want to do that anymore.

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And someone would say, wait, why are you taking apart? It was working before.

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Yeah, but I want to know how, I know why it does.

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Or it doesn't. Who is this idiot now? Where do we put him in?

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What kind of box? Well, at the hallway, I'm in the box of non-linear thinking.

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There's a new title for this show. Welcome to the guys in their midlife crisis.

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Totally. Hello.

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Sir. Good morning, doc Octopus.

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Hey Kyle. How are you doing?

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I'm doing well. How are you?

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Good, good. How's the week?

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How's, how's the energy?

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How's the juju This week?

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The energy is horror. I've been sick for almost a week now. I have. Oh no.

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Yeah. And I have brain injury for a long time and sometimes that flares up and I think it's changed of weather in combination with all the kinds of things.

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So I've been, it's under the weather, but I'm happy we're doing this. I'm happy.

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I was on the couch all day with my laptop, canceled the meetings. Like, fuck it, I'm not doing well.

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But I just had a meeting with Max from Pick My Brain and then with you to end the day. Well, this gives me energy.

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We're going to get the energy lifted.

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Max and I had a great one and a half hour brainstorm this past weekend. I mean, we were just catching.

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Yeah.

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So good. Yeah.

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Yeah. See, there's me an idea as well.

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I'm very passionate about the question, how can I help you?

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Because after three and a half years of working with the nonprofit, I've spoken with, God knows how many people I do, sometimes seven calls a day.

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It's ridiculous. And in the beginning of the movement, people would ask me, how can I help you? And I would always be, I dunno, I don't even know what the fuck I'm doing, so I dunno how you're going to help me. Which is the wrong answer.

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I can tell you that.

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But after three and a half years, I am like, oh, wait a second, this is what's going on. And most people don't understand this.

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And there's a duality in that answer.

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So every time someone is saying, I need more clients, I need more time, I need these kind of answers.

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Or I'm looking for an investor like, no, and I train people now how to do that.

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And it's fascinating to help them and to show them how they're stuck in duality, which is linear thinking.

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And I help them to create a different answer.

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And if we nail it, it's awesome. It makes me so happy.

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Because then if you know the answer to that question, what do you need?

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If you can answer that, well, you already have it. That simple, right?

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If it's crystal clear and without duality, and when it's a fact, you already have it. And when it's duality, you don't have it.

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But you will never get it.

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And people will never help you to get that because they don't want to be in that space of stress and.

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Right. Yeah.

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Anyway, so Max was helping me to turn this into a, how did he call that again? Oh fuck. I forgot.

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Anyway, some group coaching things like, you need to do this, Perry.

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Oh yeah, you're right, max.

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Oh, to do a group coaching for helping people unblock.

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Yeah. So I do it now, but I'm going out. It's going to be, what's it called? It's not a mastermind, it's to train one individual in a group.

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And everybody looks at how you do that and get inspired.

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Right.

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How do you call that?

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I'm going to put it in the show notes if I find it out.

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Anyway, so that's Max.

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Yeah. Amazing. Awesome.

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How are you?

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I'm good. I'm good. It's a good week.

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It's good energy this week and good movement on things.

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And I'm so excited to, I was so energized after our conversation last time, and I just love the way that you think and the way that you approach things.

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So thank you, by the way, for coming on this and talking, and.

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I'm working on my stat list as you can see, and as soon as when I think, oh yeah, this is nice, and I'm going to share it in the Octopus movie, explain these fuckers how to use this.

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Amazed them.

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Did you see the on updates with now the image cards and all the things?

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What.

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Do you think? What is the update.

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When you go into the dashboard now, basically all the cards sort of, there's a new card layout and then you can click on one and sort of blow it up and see the detail of each of the cards. Yeah, yeah.

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But my art cards on Instagram are not showing the picture anymore.

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Oh good. We'll have to.

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Damn.

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Do you.

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Like that? And I was curious if, and I wanted to test if it works now, but I want to create a stack of cards about people who make a difference and link them to LinkedIn.

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But when I use the LinkedIn profile link on a card, it's not working. And.

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I dunno, a quick way to do it.

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Basically LinkedIn and Amazon are both kind of fortresses because they don't want it buddy. It sort of get in, but there's a way to basically grab that.

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And then also at the same time, you grab the person's image and put it on your desktop and then just add your own custom image. But you're adding their profile photo in the card.

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So I'll show you that.

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But when I was using the URL of LinkedIn, so to direct people to that person, I couldn't save the card.

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Oh, weird. Yeah. Okay.

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We will work on that.

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We're going to screen share after we stop recording. Okay, let's do the interview first, let's go back to the beginning.

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Let's go back to the early.

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Where did Dr. Octopus come from?

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Are we recording already?

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We are. We're in it. We're in the flow.

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We're in the flow. Okay.

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So what do I need to explain?

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Well, I love the story and the journey that you shared with me, but I'd love to know what's the background and the nugget of where you think your approach to life and the way you think about things. Where does that come from?

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I don't know. Where is something coming from?

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I think if you know where it's coming from, it's not coming from anywhere anymore. I need to explain this, but where's this coming from?

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Of course my homelessness got a huge impact on everything that happened, but that is happening now.

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But before the homeless, it's not like a normal life and everything was going as it should be going.

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And then I became homeless and then my life changed.

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I think it has always been there, but it's the homelessness created the possibility to bring it all together.

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Maybe I find it so difficult, this question because I keep explaining to people that nothing changed when I was homeless.

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And I mean that because here you're thinking your being stays the same.

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How you see things and how you feel, your love, how you see your kids, how you hug someone.

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It doesn't change if you're homeless or not. So in that perspective, nothing changed.

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And maybe just give a little context of that period of your life, just the kind of before and then during homelessness and then after.

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Just before. I've always been a bit of a weirdo, not a bit, I've always been weird.

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I like weird people.

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I've done things differently my entire life.

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I've always had people not understanding me like he's weird. Why is he doing that?

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And now we're laughing about it, but it's not that funny.

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It's.

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When you're growing up and when you're going through formative years, it's really difficult because you're just trying to figure out who you are and how that relates to other people. So.

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Yeah, I think if you see of it.

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I loveness.

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But it's difficult your entire life if it doesn't find its place. So I've tried so hard to be who I was expecting myself to be.

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And at one point I took the decision no longer I was an entrepreneur. I was living in a beautiful house, girlfriend, everything. It was in Belgium. And then the relationship ended.

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Unfortunately, the landlord didn't like me and everything went wrong. And that was the decision of, okay, I don't want this.

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I've been trying so hard to be who I'm not to please everyone. And now everything goes wrong.

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What the hell, right? I don't want this anymore.

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I've been doing this for you, not for me.

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And what was this four years ago? Okay, so I was 44.

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I've been doing this for you people. I've been adjusting myself, so you understand me, I've been adjusting myself otherwise I don't fit in. You find me weird.

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And I thought, I don't want to do that anymore.

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And I remember so well that in Brussels, I had a psychiatrist that I saw once a year after my divorce.

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And this guy was awesome.

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He was a professor at the university in Antwerp, in psychiatry.

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And I saw him once a year for an hour. And we always did one thing, how was this year and how is the next year going to be?

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It was this maintenance, it was this maintenance checkup of my brain that I did once a year with him.

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And I remember one time I asked him, why is it that people always get upset with me, but I'm not doing anything wrong?

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What is this? Why are people always getting upset with me?

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I mean so well, and it's not happening.

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And that's the masking and that's the trying to do what is expected from you. And I was fed up with it.

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So I decided this is the start of the homelessness to say, this is it. I'm not doing this anymore. I said to the landlord, you can have everything.

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I gave away everything.

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And I walked away and that was it. I have three kids, so walking away is not very easy because I didn't want to walk away from the kids. So my ex-wife wanted to kill me. I don't blame her. Of course.

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Can imagine your ex-husband with your Xbox saying, if I'm homeless now, good luck.

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I was homeless for seven months and it was very painful, very difficult.

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It was a lot of hardship that seven months because you're nothing.

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So I went from masking, trying to do my best for everyone to be nothing, for no one.

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People look at you like you fucking loser, you're nothing. And I went back to the Netherlands.

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My ex-wife wanted to go back to the Netherlands and she said, now we're going back to the Netherlands because you're homeless. So I win.

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You have nothing to say.

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So she went back to the Netherlands and I went back to the Netherlands, went to the government with my Dutch passport. You help me please.

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I'm homeless and I don't know what to do. I need to see my kids.

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And their response, I'm not kidding, we didn't ask you to come back, Perry.

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Wow.

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Okay. So bottom line was you're on your own.

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Forget about it. And I wanted to have a postal address, was in line, didn't get a postal address. Then I said, I think that's not possible according to law.

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Then I had a security agent ticking me out and these kinds of things.

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So I was homeless for seven months, then I got into a house, saw my kids again, and I thought, I survived this.

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I freaking survived this.

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And nothing changed what we earlier talked about.

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So I went from masking and trying to be someone to nothing.

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Understanding that this stays the same, That's the best education in the world to create something because fuck it, let's do it. I should be sponsored by Nike. Let's do it.

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I've learned how to do that because you're on your own basically, and you need to do it yourself, and this is the one you're taking with you.

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So how other people see you is irrelevant.

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You just need to be real.

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And it changed my life.

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I got rid of the mask. I became an artist.

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I wanted to be an artist who can define what an artist is. I want to be that go away. You linear thinking, I'm an artist. And then I thought, okay, if I can do anything that I want, then I want to create a global nonprofit and create the awareness of how awesome people are that don't fit in the box or just not precisely fit in the box. And I think we're missing out on an opportunity not to look at these people because they're the ones who are bringing in the brilliant ideas.

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But the duality is that we're not seeing them and we find them difficult and we have a strong opinion about them, but they're the ones who are creating innovation, the CODIS companies and the movements.

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And we only celebrate them after they have achieved linear results before that, no way. So only a small percentage of these non-linear weirdos are able to achieve tremendous linear results.

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So the whole world embraces them and say they're awesome.

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And I think if we're looking at the world as it is today with all the crisis, education, homelessness, of course hunger, climate change, wellbeing by God, wellbeing is an issue. Mental health leadership, if we look at that, I think we need to look at the nonlinear thinkers, the people that don't fit into the box To learn and to see different ideals and use different thinking.

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So that's my life. So when you asked me what happened, well a lot.

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And also when I was homeless, I had no idea I was going to do this.

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When I was homeless, I was applying for jobs.

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I was sending out my resume like 70, 80 times in and nobody wanted to talk to me. I have dyslexia, so I make mistakes and my resume looks like shit.

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I've done everything in China. I had my own TV series, but radio host, animal nutrition.

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I've done so many different things.

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And if someone of the HR department is looking at my resume, it must be thinking, who is this idiot?

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Where do we put him in?

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What kind of box? Well, at the hallway, I'm in the box of non-linear thinking.

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I love it. I resonate with so much of that. I think growing up I had a very traditional sort of family and growing up going to schools and my mom worked with my dad. My dad had his own practice, 40 something years, pretty routine in terms of getting up about 5:00 AM playing racquetball, going to work.

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What kind of practice call.

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It was a medical doctor, internal medicine and rheumatoid arthritis.

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But come home, have dinner, watch a little bit of tv, make some calls, fall asleep in his chair, and then go upstairs and go to bed and do it again.

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And obviously it was a noble pursuit for building what he built.

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And he built a nonprofit in Honduras and raising us and providing for us.

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But I think I was always built different and I was always wanting to, was always down in my granddad's basement taking, I would buy a computer and take it apart and someone would say, why are you taking apart? It was working before. Yeah, but I want to know how.

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I want to know why it does or it does.

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And I never sat well with school.

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School, just school. And me would just oil and water.

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I had to do it by doing. And so you go through that period where I went through the sort of seventh, maybe no, eighth, ninth, 10th grade. It wasn't Ritalin, but it was in that very sort of, oh, I think you must have a DD.

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And it's just not doing well in classes.

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And I just found it just boring shit.

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I just didn't want to sit and listen to you for an hour and then regurgitate it back to you. I need to do it.

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But what's funny is the one thing that I excelled at was I started messing with computers around that time, took'em apart. I would stay up late, I'd sneak out of my bedroom and I'd sneak downstairs and I'd mess with my computer. And one of my teachers, our typing teacher said, Hey Kyle, by the way, I think you like these computers.

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We're going to do a future business Leaders of America, Georgia State competition in a week.

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And no one really wants to sign up for the computers. What was it?

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It was computer information processing concepts, which is quite a mouthful, but no one wants to sign up for it. Do you want to just go? And she was like, it's a day off of school, you get lunch.

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I was like, yeah, that sounds great.

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Sure.

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She gave me sort of some topics to review and I sort of reviewed some topics.

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I ended up getting fifth place in the state just from messing around. And that's just how my brain works.

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And I think I resonate with so much with what you're saying also in that when I think about, I went through the same thing.

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My mom passed last year and I hit my 45th birthday and I had just sort of had it with this company that I was working for, just political and other stuff.

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And I left that company and I ended up getting my first two tattoos, which my dad growing up, I had always said, no one in this household and set up this.

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In this household.

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But it was so funny in this 40, 50 year where I sort of felt like there was some, I don't know why not 50, but 45 felt like, okay, chapter one, volume one of this life is sort of up to 45. Let's say I go another 45.

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But then with my whole nuclear family leaving and me also being in digital for 23, 24 years and just seeing the same things over and over, launching project after project after project for sort of big companies that it always felt like we got to get more of those.

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We got to get more of those that I just hit this change and I went, I'm not working for anybody else.

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I got my two tattoos. But I also, there was something about that sort of breaking and freeing from that first version of me that was always worried about what people thought and always had the wheel spinning of the right ways to position and say and do.

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And now I'm much more like I don't care.

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It's like if it fits in my rhythm, great. If it doesn't, then I got other stuff to work on.

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There's a new title for this show. Welcome to the guys in their midlife crisis.

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Totally right Here we are.

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Two guys showing your tattoos.

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Yeah, I was like, yeah, exactly.

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But think about, it's interesting, the idea of a midlife crisis.

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Could it also be breaking the linear thinking that you sort of are raised with, which says, here we go, we do school, we get good grades, we sort of go to higher education, we get good grades, and then we get a job out that, and then we start building our resume.

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Kyle, there is no question about it.

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There is no linear 2-year-old.

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So non-linear thinking is how our brain works.

00:22:32.619 --> 00:22:45.309
And then we grow up, we go to school and we work in a company and we have our parents in the household, and then there's this research paper.

00:22:40.420 --> 00:22:45.309
It's so cool. I always talk about that.

00:22:46.900 --> 00:22:51.160
They did research on why some people are so freaking linear.

00:22:51.400 --> 00:23:04.299
Let's turn it around. Let's look at the people that are very linear, tight, very much in control, tight underwear, tight schedule, tight, everything is tight, tight, tight, everything. And why is that?

00:23:05.619 --> 00:23:16.269
So on the other side, people are more free to look at their own mental state.

00:23:11.890 --> 00:23:23.559
It means when I became homeless, I had no idea what I was getting into. It was big hales, but I knew that I could survive with my mind.

00:23:24.220 --> 00:23:25.930
I would not go nuts.

00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:30.609
So how do I know that I won't go nuts?

00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:46.339
Because I've been trained my entire life because people have been telling me that I've been weird. So my entire life I've been asking myself, am I weird? What's wrong with me? Dyslexia, a DH, D on the spectrum, fucking hell.

00:23:46.339 --> 00:23:50.390
Of course you're going to ask yourself what's going on with me?

00:23:50.809 --> 00:24:14.772
But that's a training to become very non-linear because you allow chaos in your life because you know how you will respond to things, your mental state very well If you're, you're not in that space, you don't want to go to your mental space, you don't want to understand or you find it scary to understand your own thinking.

00:24:15.259 --> 00:24:24.890
And what is the response is let's organize everything so well that I don't have to go there.

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:34.640
So if I know what I'm doing today, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, and everything is scheduled and everything is in a system, then I have it in control feels good or less.

00:24:34.700 --> 00:24:37.400
But there's the same non in your brain.

00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:53.390
So I like your theory that in your midlife price, you break free from that and you all of a sudden are aware of the fact that you're trapped in your isolation of bots, scared the hell out of everything, created systems.

00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:57.890
And you're thinking if this light, is this how it should be?

00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:00.079
Probably not.

00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:07.759
And then you buy a horse convertible with a new younger girlfriend and whatnot. We discovered the non-linear.

00:25:08.630 --> 00:25:27.289
Right? No, totally. And I think that is that, while I think that has been sort of diagnosed and thrown around so much, I think what you're talking about is so interesting that well, it hasn't been diagnosed as sort of taking the red pill, sort of moving from linear to non-linear thinking.

00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:53.660
But it has to be so many people getting to a certain point saying, I've played the game. I've played it so well, I did what you want to, I played, I did buy all the rules and what else is there? What else is there right now? But, and then that sort of breaks and you go, I think I can do something else, or I can think a different way.

00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:56.240
And it opens up and freeze you from that.

00:25:56.690 --> 00:26:05.930
I always think about school records and resumes in my mind are those two very linear.

00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:11.329
When you're in school, you don't want to mess up your school records. And then when you start working, they're like, you don't want to mess up your resume.

00:26:11.509 --> 00:26:13.519
You don't want to only be here for a certain amount of time.

00:26:13.789 --> 00:26:17.450
So there's this tunnel that you're just running down fast.

00:26:17.450 --> 00:26:23.569
But at some point you hit a point where you're like, why have I been running for this long? And to what?

00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:26.712
But I love the fact that.

00:26:26.809 --> 00:26:34.039
Because you're scared, right? I don't know what happens. So if I follow this, then I'm going to be fine.

00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:40.190
And I need to explain that non-linear thinking is not the opposite of linear thinking. Most people think that, right?

00:26:40.250 --> 00:26:54.569
Because it's so there's a duality in linear versus non-linear, but it's not because linear thinking is creating the systems and going from point A to B2C and predictions and whatnot.

00:26:54.569 --> 00:26:57.269
Non-linear thinking is not the opposite.

00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:10.200
Non-linear thinking is not let's be creative and weird and so non-linear because you can be very creative and weird I won't give any examples anyway.

00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:15.210
There's no duality there because non-linear thinking is nothing.

00:27:15.509 --> 00:27:16.650
That's the whole thing.

00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:32.279
So I always explain non-linear thinking as the BOT between talks. You have your thinking, your thinking is conditioned anyway, How we're trained.

00:27:32.730 --> 00:27:35.549
So your thinking is conditioned.

00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:42.720
And then there's another thought and there is space between that. And for me, that's non-linear thinking.

00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:46.319
That's where creativity lies.

00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:56.880
It's almost like observing without observing, right? If you observe something, you start thinking immediately, why does he have a sticker on his microphone?

00:27:57.089 --> 00:27:59.579
What kind of brand microphone he says can see it?

00:28:00.809 --> 00:28:08.309
You start to think that way. Is it that, I dunno, why sticker, I don't like the sticker, weird octopus, whatever.

00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:17.640
But we do that with everything. If we see a flower and I show you a rose, you immediately go, rose red flowers smells good.

00:28:18.509 --> 00:28:21.150
You're not looking right.

00:28:21.930 --> 00:28:37.200
And that's what I mean with non-linear thinking is to think without thinking you're in an empty space and you live your life in a different way. You just let it go.

00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:38.579
You just serve the wave.

00:28:38.609 --> 00:28:45.089
It doesn't mean you sit on the couch and you're smoking weed all day and you're not being anything.

00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:45.089
I'm a nonlinear finger.

00:28:46.890 --> 00:28:48.059
That's not what I'm saying.

00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:52.829
It's finding the space in between and see things differently.

00:28:53.009 --> 00:28:56.519
Also see your own spouse differently.

00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:14.789
My wife, as soon as you say this is my wife, you start thinking about all the history with your wife, like the flower, the rose, the dread, your wife, cranky bunny, whatever, and no, remove that.

00:29:15.029 --> 00:29:17.880
That's for me nonlinear thinking. I.

00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:39.359
Love it. Well, and how much of this do you think also is tied into what Eastern thinking around meditation and that idea of emptying and clearing your mind, is it all sort of similar in that way of trying to sort of remove yourself from all the constructs of.

00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:51.009
Oh yes. I think quieting down to, I have a D, HD, Kyle, The minds was a big topic in my life.

00:29:52.029 --> 00:30:17.109
It was constantly ideas every day, so many ideas and then this and then thoughts, and I would see someone have thoughts and I have feelings and everything was happening. So quieting the minds is really step one in embracing non-linear thinking.

00:30:17.109 --> 00:30:46.750
For me it's to quiet down the mind and it's not in following some kind of system in how you meditate. Oh my goodness, can we talk about that for one minute? Oh, what do I, okay, I need to sit on that pillow exactly at that time of the day so I can meditate. Then you're not meditating.

00:30:47.769 --> 00:31:00.130
How is that? If that's quieting down, if you need to sit there to quiet down your mind, then by sitting there, you're not quieting down the mind because the mind is like, I'm sitting here so I'm meditating.

00:31:01.329 --> 00:31:05.650
You can sit there for the next 10,000 years. You're not meditating.

00:31:07.329 --> 00:31:09.609
How would you then.

00:31:11.410 --> 00:31:15.940
So what's the optimal without any system?

00:31:16.990 --> 00:31:30.279
So to quiet down the mind is to quiet down the mind without a system, without I need to do it once a day or my alarm goes off, oh, it's time to meditate. Fuck yeah.

00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:37.359
It doesn't work that way because you start thinking, now I need to meditate.

00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:39.460
So that's already not meditation anymore.

00:31:40.990 --> 00:32:02.920
But how would I think about everybody going through their everyday lives and their habits and the routines between work and family and things like that? I mean, I see how setting an alarm and setting a time kind of sets that aside to start doing that practice.

00:32:02.950 --> 00:32:38.200
I think also I've pulled apart my own habits and put them back together so many times to try and understand how you sort of work things like that into your daily routine without it just being completely unstructured and only happening spontaneously. How would someone work that into their routine to not have a structure but still be able to quiet their mind.

00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:40.910
To have it always there.

00:32:42.019 --> 00:32:45.650
So I can do two things while listen to you.

00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:56.750
I can listen to you and already be in my mind going to what is going to be my response, or do I agree with him or not?

00:32:57.769 --> 00:33:05.450
That's how most people listen. That's not listening, that's preparing yourself to respond.

00:33:07.009 --> 00:33:19.663
I like to listen and while I'm listening or even while I'm talking, have periods of meditation where you quiet down your brain.

00:33:21.230 --> 00:33:24.230
I love to listen and quiet down my brain.

00:33:24.289 --> 00:33:27.380
I don't want to talk to myself while I'm listening to you.

00:33:27.710 --> 00:33:31.970
So I don't need to set an alarm to meditate. I'm meditating all day.

00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:33.032
Okay?

00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:50.359
If I'm talking with you, I find the peace with the between sentences. If I walk my dog, I'm walking outside, I'm talking to myself about the emails and whatnot, and I'm all of a sudden aware, wait a second, I'm not doing this.

00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:55.220
Now let's flip the switch.

00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:55.220
Let's quiet the brain, be here.

00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:07.250
Also, when someone is talking like, okay, let's quiet down the brain and just hear what Kyle is saying without observing, saying.

00:34:09.050 --> 00:34:42.739
Okay. And that to me feels more along the lines of what I think of as mindfulness, and I can do it as I'm sitting here talking to you that there are moments when sort of the waters rush in and the thoughts rush in, and then I can think about it for a minute and I can sort of park those seas and I can literally just be in this moment right here with you, with no other sort of the time, and I got to pick up my son and I and all those sort of things.

00:34:42.739 --> 00:34:48.469
And so I almost feel like I can do those moments of parting the seas.

00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:57.199
Would the practice then be doing more of that as much as you can to where it becomes second nature?

00:34:58.010 --> 00:34:58.842
Yes.

00:35:00.590 --> 00:35:03.170
I love to be able to flip the switch.

00:35:04.340 --> 00:35:22.429
It is about quieting the brain and it is about being able to quiet down the brain without having a conversation with your brain saying, now I'm going to shut you down because that's not going to work.

00:35:24.349 --> 00:35:50.519
And then you can sit on the pillow until you're 95 and still saying to yourself, now I'm going to shut down my thinking or repeat words constantly in the idea that that's quieting down your brain, but to quiet down your brain is to enter that space of quietness. There's nothing.

00:35:51.659 --> 00:36:09.719
And I think it's beautiful to be able to access that even in a conversation so you can really listen to someone and have that with you always, that you don't have to say, oh, I'm sorry, it's now time for me to meditate.

00:36:10.349 --> 00:36:12.389
You're laughing, but I know people who do that.

00:36:12.389 --> 00:36:13.222
Right? Yeah.

00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:59.369
Sorry, I'm sorry. It's all very fun, but I need to meditate. Now, what I think the beauty between thoughts is the quietness, and you need to have that with you, and it's difficult, but if it works, if you have kids, I have three kids, and you come home after work and you have had a horrible day, nothing worked. We all know these days, right? Deadlines, people make promises it's not working and you are tired and you have a headache, and then your kids are in a complete other galaxy when you come home, right?

00:36:59.369 --> 00:37:00.202
Yeah.

00:37:00.389 --> 00:37:03.030
What do you do? You're cranky at the kids.

00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.949
Be quiet and you're responding to them, right?

00:37:08.190 --> 00:37:09.023
Yeah.

00:37:09.179 --> 00:37:21.420
If you understand meditation, you enter the door, you flip the switch and you quiet down your brain, it's quiet. There is no frustration, there's nothing.

00:37:22.590 --> 00:37:35.579
And then you see your kids, and then you can really see your kids and you can hug them and you're happy to see them. And then you can say, I've had just the most terrible day at the office.

00:37:36.809 --> 00:37:54.449
I'm going to go into the bathtub for an hour, but you're happy instead of being all cranky and difficult. That's why meditation is so important, and that's why meditation is important to do it wherever you want to do it.

00:37:55.019 --> 00:37:58.679
If you open your front door, you can do that in a meditative state.

00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:00.449
You're fucking awesome then.

00:38:00.750 --> 00:38:17.400
Yeah, no, I agree. I think that's something I've struggled with too, is that racing mind and not being, for me, it's about trying to find moments where I transition better just as fast as my mind goes.

00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:45.579
Sometimes we will finish here and I will stand up and I will go put my shoes on and I'll go pick up my son on the way back, he's going to want to listen to, there is a monster truck named Megalodon that has a theme that sounds like a death metal band. And he's like, Mela Dawn. And he's like, can we listen to that on the way home?

00:38:40.929 --> 00:38:45.579
I'm like, my eyes twitting a little bit.

00:38:46.480 --> 00:39:16.420
And then I get home and it's sort of like, and then leaders if feed the dog together, we should really should wash the lunchboxes before and I should pack the lunch so that we're not rushed in the morning. And all those sort of things come in. And what I've been trying to be better about is also find those moments of transition. And I think for me, it helps me have almost little markers of moments to be able to take.

00:39:12.429 --> 00:39:24.670
If I pull up to my son's school, I sort of turn everything off and I just sort of sit for a minute and I kind of mentally transition into that next place.

00:39:24.670 --> 00:39:35.829
So I sort of receive him better rather than I've had days where I pull up and I'm still getting notifications and somebody wants to talk and I pick him up while I'm talking or whatever.

00:39:36.070 --> 00:39:55.389
Versus trying to find those moments where I can just sort of mentally block everything out and sort of transition into that more meditative state or clear state to be a lot more present.

00:39:56.139 --> 00:39:58.420
But it's hard with a fast brain sometimes.

00:39:58.929 --> 00:40:03.579
Can I share a cool exercise with you? It's so interesting.

00:40:04.150 --> 00:40:11.860
You relax your or not. I always start, you have to relax. It's bullshit, whatever.

00:40:12.219 --> 00:40:13.329
If you're not, either way.

00:40:14.590 --> 00:40:21.610
Whatever. Go into your brain, go into your brain and ask your brain, your mind. What is your next thought?

00:40:25.510 --> 00:40:29.889
There is a moment, I think with most people.

00:40:29.889 --> 00:40:33.309
There is a moment of blue screen there.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:35.170
What is your next thought?

00:40:36.309 --> 00:40:40.389
Your mind is, did it? What the first fuck are you saying, dude?

00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:43.480
What is your next thing?

00:40:44.889 --> 00:40:49.682
I will decide what your next thought is. This is the wrong question, little fucker.

00:40:51.940 --> 00:40:55.389
But this is the space between thoughts. It's so cool.

00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:58.690
You can go there immediately.

00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:58.690
What is my next thought?

00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:02.440
And then your thinking starts, Hey, that's funny.

00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:05.590
I don't have a thought or this is my next thought.

00:41:05.590 --> 00:41:17.469
But there is this period of time where it's quiet and that's your entrance to flip the switch on any occasion, anything that happens.

00:41:19.869 --> 00:41:21.190
That's really cool. I did it.

00:41:21.550 --> 00:41:25.570
I just got the error message from my brain that was, wait, huh?

00:41:27.130 --> 00:41:29.139
You're not going to tell me no.

00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:33.530
What is this for?

00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:33.530
Question. This weird. Yeah.

00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:38.929
Wow. That's amazing. So tell me about the movement.

00:41:38.929 --> 00:41:47.809
So you got to the place where you set up the nonprofit, what did that journey look like?

00:41:47.809 --> 00:41:54.769
And when did you really sort of decide to set it up and go full focus on it?

00:41:55.940 --> 00:42:03.769
It's been such an interesting, amazing journey, Kyle, and why? It's because of this.

00:42:03.829 --> 00:42:06.980
It's because of meeting people all over the world.

00:42:07.130 --> 00:42:13.880
So I was sitting in that house, saw my kids, my kids were on the couch all happy. I didn't have anything. Kids were so happy.

00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:17.750
You're like, okay, I have a nonlinear brain in a linear world.

00:42:18.199 --> 00:42:21.590
I want to create the awareness. I'm doing this.

00:42:21.710 --> 00:42:25.670
And I asked a group of people, what is the symbol of a curious misfit?

00:42:25.670 --> 00:42:29.210
And someone said, I always send an octopus emoji for the fun of it.

00:42:29.210 --> 00:42:36.500
And then someone said about the octopus teacher, a documentary on Netflix that is absolutely amazing.

00:42:36.500 --> 00:42:43.670
If you haven't seen it, anyone who's listening, Netflix, my octopus teacher won an Oscar.

00:42:40.130 --> 00:42:43.670
It's so good. And why is it good?

00:42:43.670 --> 00:42:47.420
Because the filmmaker, I was the filmmaker.

00:42:47.420 --> 00:42:51.349
The filmmaker was stressed out, the filmmaker went home, right?

00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:53.329
I think he was 44 as well, I don't know.

00:42:53.539 --> 00:42:58.130
But he was in a burnout as a filmmaker thinking, what am I doing?

00:42:58.909 --> 00:43:01.280
What is this linear world want from me?

00:43:01.550 --> 00:43:15.110
So he went diving into the ocean every day, going to the non-linear world where you're thinking, everyone who's diving knows that the quietness of the mind is something different underwater.

00:43:15.469 --> 00:43:28.250
And then he met this octopus and the octopus, eight arms, nine brains, three hearts. It's awesome. And I saw that and I thought, this is, it's the octopus movements because.

00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:34.789
That sounded really funny.

00:43:37.219 --> 00:43:39.530
Yeah. What boys home from school?

00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:40.753
Yay.

00:43:43.940 --> 00:43:46.250
And the octopus is so cool.

00:43:46.730 --> 00:44:01.400
It resonated so much with me because it felt like I have three hearts and nine brains and eight arms, and I adjust myself and I changed color and I escaped the box and that I need to use the octopus.

00:44:01.489 --> 00:44:04.969
And I've been so lucky with that because of the octopus.

00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:14.630
The octopus movements grew so fast because many people in the beginning were saying, I don't know what you're doing, but I want to be a part of it because this is the octopus movement.

00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:26.389
This is so cool. And also for the non-linear thinkers, the people that are slightly different, and also the space in neurodiversity also say they're all fan of an octopus.

00:44:26.929 --> 00:44:29.449
They're like, these are incredible creatures.

00:44:30.050 --> 00:44:32.280
And that's the journey.

00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:44.369
And I started with 50 members and I now have eight and a half thousands in 95 countries, and it's working amazing and it's working.

00:44:40.289 --> 00:44:49.380
And I also wanted to, I didn't want to show look what I can, but I just wanted to do it.

00:44:50.670 --> 00:44:55.409
I came from that situation of this is me. This is the rest of the world.

00:44:55.650 --> 00:45:00.420
This is what I want to do. So I'm doing it regardless of whatever.

00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:07.829
So I just had my laptop and nothing else, no income, no stability, but I was okay.

00:45:07.829 --> 00:45:09.840
I knew that I survived that.

00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:14.400
So I was just building and I was just, this is me.

00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.760
I don't know what I'm doing.

00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.760
I just know you're very cool.

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.989
I need to talk to you and you need to talk to that other person.

00:45:23.219 --> 00:45:25.380
That person in Bangladesh is awesome.

00:45:27.070 --> 00:45:33.750
And that journey keeps going and it's still today keeps going.

00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:43.800
I just got the invitation to go to the World Economic Forum to be there on the panel and talk about this kind of stuff.

00:45:39.269 --> 00:45:52.920
It's a journey every day, and we're growing and we're addressing the six crises in the world.

00:45:50.099 --> 00:45:52.920
We're doing think tanks.

00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:56.309
We're bringing in classrooms into the think tanks.

00:45:56.309 --> 00:45:58.139
We have a partnership with nasa.

00:45:59.610 --> 00:46:01.829
We do all the cool things you can imagine.

00:46:03.570 --> 00:46:15.929
And I also wanted to prove in a way that everything is possible. And I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs.

00:46:11.670 --> 00:46:15.929
I need an investor.

00:46:15.989 --> 00:46:20.130
I need this, I need that.

00:46:15.989 --> 00:46:20.130
And I didn't need anything.

00:46:21.329 --> 00:46:31.199
I needed myself to be my true self and to do the things that I'm doing. And I'm working my ass off every day because I enjoy it.

00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:40.949
And my day starts at six 30 in the morning and it goes until 11 in the evening, and it goes on and on and on.

00:46:41.070 --> 00:46:58.559
And because I love it. I love connecting to people, and I love listening to all these weirdos in the world and connecting them all together and thinking we're going to solve the problem within the educational system. We're going to create a new educational system with the octopus poin.

00:46:59.219 --> 00:47:03.360
We are going to create a huge difference in leadership.

00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:05.099
We're already doing that.

00:47:05.099 --> 00:47:17.880
We're creating a network now of a hundred CEOs who are installing the non-linear manager, a non-linear manager, quickly explained, I'm so excited about this. A non-linear manager, so simple.

00:47:18.750 --> 00:47:30.070
It's a manager, a leader who has the authority to pause the system, solve the problem, reactivate the system.

00:47:30.340 --> 00:47:45.519
So here you are at school, there's a problem, and you are sent to the non-linear manager, and that person is going to explore how to really help you and forget about all the systems there are in place.

00:47:46.570 --> 00:47:54.969
We're going to ignore them, we're going to pause them, solve this, and then when everything goes well, we reactivate the system for you.

00:47:55.389 --> 00:48:02.769
It's so simple, Kyle. Nobody's doing it. And most people are saying, sorry, but this is how the system works.

00:48:05.530 --> 00:48:19.929
We created systems, and that's a good thing. I'm not against systems, but it's weird to be behind the system saying, I cannot do anything because the system.

00:48:19.929 --> 00:48:23.019
Is the machine is running and the machine has always run.

00:48:23.500 --> 00:48:29.139
Don't question the machine, and it moves so fast, you're going to get left if you don't.

00:48:29.500 --> 00:48:34.090
But then that just means that the cycles just keep going and going and going.

00:48:34.090 --> 00:48:38.019
And no one is taking that moment. I love that idea.

00:48:38.019 --> 00:48:53.230
I got that mental image of essentially stopping the educational system for a child in the eighth grade and being like, Nope, we're going to take a minute and we're going to sort of make sure that address this or address that or understand and support.

00:48:53.679 --> 00:48:55.179
Now we will restart it.

00:48:55.179 --> 00:49:02.050
But typically you would think the standard system now, no, we can't stop it. He's got to test on Tuesday.

00:49:02.590 --> 00:49:10.780
And if we start doing this for one person, we have to do it for these kind of ridiculous things.

00:49:10.869 --> 00:49:18.489
And there's this story about a little girl who has dyslexia, severe dyslexia. She goes to an international school in Brussels.

00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:36.550
She's the best of her class, absolutely wonderful, gorgeous child, super intelligent, goes to another country, comes into a different international school, not a private one anymore, but linked to the government.

00:49:37.090 --> 00:49:45.280
And she came into the class and because of her dyslexia, they wanted to kick her out of the IB system because he wasn't good enough.

00:49:47.050 --> 00:49:51.429
So the parents was questioning, but this is weird.

00:49:52.659 --> 00:49:59.079
The girl is still the same girl, and the only thing that changed was the school.

00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:04.719
Now my girl is kicking out, and what is this?

00:50:04.929 --> 00:50:11.889
And this is the perfect example of, okay, let's pause the system here.

00:50:12.309 --> 00:50:17.199
Let's see what we can really do.

00:50:12.309 --> 00:50:21.219
And that girl was my daughter, by the way, and I had to go to court. Oh my gosh.

00:50:21.429 --> 00:50:25.329
And I lost, and the judge said to me, I don't know what to do.

00:50:25.989 --> 00:50:34.250
And it took an hour, that whole hearing at the end, the judge said to me, I don't know what to do.

00:50:34.429 --> 00:50:48.980
So we're going to ask child services what to do and child services. There was this 21-year-old, seriously, 22 or whatever, very young, straight out of college, she was there for child services.

00:50:48.980 --> 00:51:01.940
And she said, well, according to the system, the schools, the school knows best because they're the professional institution and not the emotional bad.

00:51:03.050 --> 00:51:22.789
That's what she said. And then the judge said, well, not the emotional dad, but the smart dad who is worried about his child, but I need to listen to the system, and therefore your daughter is kicked off of the international school.

00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:24.072
Oh my gosh.

00:51:24.619 --> 00:51:35.210
And this is an example why we should pause this and say, wait a second, and it's her life, Kyle, it's not fair.

00:51:35.269 --> 00:51:42.380
The same thing with Yoka. She's an 83-year-old, amazing woman, Holocaust survivor, good friend of mine.

00:51:42.469 --> 00:51:49.550
She used to live half of the year in California, half of the year in the Netherlands.

00:51:46.099 --> 00:51:49.550
Her only possession was two suitcases.

00:51:49.849 --> 00:51:53.570
That's it. Talking about nonlinear free spirits.

00:51:54.500 --> 00:51:55.333
That's rare.

00:51:55.670 --> 00:51:58.730
And she decided to go back to the Netherlands and live in the Netherlands.

00:51:58.730 --> 00:52:15.320
Make a very long story short, she was renting a holiday home because she didn't have anything in the Netherlands, and she wanted to register herself at the commune, at the government, local government. And she couldn't, because you cannot register yourself in a holiday home.

00:52:15.710 --> 00:52:17.030
But she didn't have a house.

00:52:17.150 --> 00:52:24.380
And that the government came to our holiday home and said, you need to leave this place within two weeks, otherwise we will kick you out.

00:52:24.619 --> 00:52:29.539
Etsy said, what? And they said, sorry, but that's the system.

00:52:31.099 --> 00:52:31.932
That's why.

00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:35.960
You can't rent a place for a month. You.

00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:39.019
Can, but you cannot register that.

00:52:39.019 --> 00:52:44.532
That's as your address where you're registered at the government.

00:52:44.750 --> 00:52:49.309
You need to actually be a visitor. You can't be trying to.

00:52:49.820 --> 00:52:54.800
No. So you cannot live in a holiday home, so it needs to be your own house.

00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:57.679
You bought it or you're renting it, and it cannot be a holiday home.

00:52:59.539 --> 00:53:00.373
Wow.

00:53:01.550 --> 00:53:05.090
We need to pass the system sometimes solve a problem.

00:53:05.539 --> 00:53:10.190
And it got all solved, and she's a wonderful person.

00:53:10.190 --> 00:53:12.110
And he was like, what are you saying?

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:21.860
Sees a tough cookie, but people are damaged because it's so easy to say.

00:53:21.860 --> 00:53:23.480
But that's how the system works.

00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:30.960
And I think the new form of leadership in today's world is a nonlinear kind of leadership where we can say, okay, let's pause this.

00:53:31.349 --> 00:53:36.210
Let's solve this and reactivate, and we'll save a lot of money.

00:53:36.210 --> 00:53:37.980
I wrote an article about it.

00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:41.789
Only in the US will save 680 billion a year.

00:53:44.579 --> 00:54:09.360
I think you also have, I sort of consider myself in the Nintendo generation because I find that very specifically being born in 79 and going up through that Atari, Nintendo was sort of like eighties, nineties, MTV growing up through that period.

00:54:09.389 --> 00:54:35.969
Anyone older than that feels a little bit more like my parents' traditional kind of resume suit and tie interview sort of. But now I feel like at my generation, our generation and younger is more sort of against the, or breaking apart the systems of how you have to be in a company for 10 or 15 years.

00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:55.739
So they'll take you serious versus working anywhere, living anywhere, renting Airbnb type homes anywhere and breaking apart all of those white picket fence, long-term job kind of things and saying, well, how do I want to live my life?

00:54:55.739 --> 00:55:12.869
And now I feel like it's actually more standard that people just stay at a job for two years and then say, oh, I think I'm going to go somewhere else and learn something else or do something else. And hopefully when I look at my boys who are eight and four, that it even progresses further of what's possible.

00:55:12.869 --> 00:55:27.239
And I don't have to sort of go down the sort of path that was drawn in the sixties, seventies, and eighties about this is how you're supposed to set your sights and just put your head down and keep going.

00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:30.090
Versus what do you want to do?

00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:39.599
If you want to start becoming an artist at 10, start selling your work. If you want to start becoming a photographer, you have to wait. Yeah, totally.

00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:42.809
You don't have to wait to go through all the formal stuff. You can just do it.

00:55:43.110 --> 00:55:53.099
And that's what I really want to hopefully pass down to my boys, is the idea that you don't have to go through any of these sort of traditional, formal processes. You can just start doing it today.

00:55:55.380 --> 00:55:59.099
And without any duality.

00:55:55.380 --> 00:56:02.730
If you do want to do that, if you do want to go the traditional way, that's fine.

00:56:03.719 --> 00:56:12.030
That it would be so nice to have a world within the octopus movement where we don't have any rules and expectations. We don't.

00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:17.130
I see a lot of communities, and then you see the community rules first.

00:56:18.030 --> 00:56:22.500
I always find that interesting. Welcome to our community. These are the rules.

00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:27.130
Like, okay, I'm out. Be respectful to each other.

00:56:27.130 --> 00:56:31.449
Where if you start with that, that means I don't want to be here.

00:56:33.489 --> 00:56:46.690
It would be so nice if we can just do whatever we want to do. If you want to work for 20 years at a company, that's fine. If you want to be a digital nomad, that's fine.

00:56:47.110 --> 00:56:56.320
If we're all humans, and if you decide to go that way, that's awesome. And if you go that way, that's awesome too.

00:56:57.699 --> 00:57:13.869
But you can't say This one way is the standard, and we all should point towards that, and that's where it starts to break apart, and hopefully our generations and younger generations start to see and act in that manner more.

00:57:15.909 --> 00:57:28.630
Amazing. This is so fun. I always loved, and we've talked about, we got to do this, we got to do this at least once a month, is get on and have no rules conversations.

00:57:29.050 --> 00:57:35.260
No rules conversations, no expectations, nothing on the agenda, and like, oh, I need to talk about this.

00:57:35.500 --> 00:57:35.880
Yes, I need.

00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:36.713
To.

00:57:36.989 --> 00:57:38.960
I'll send you the bullet points before our conversation.

00:57:39.190 --> 00:57:40.023
Yeah.

00:57:40.219 --> 00:57:43.150
And that's also fine. Yeah, I've had that several times.

00:57:43.510 --> 00:57:46.539
They're like, oh, these are the questions already. Oh, that's nice.

00:57:46.750 --> 00:57:47.679
I know what's happening.

00:57:48.400 --> 00:58:01.840
But I love it when things happen organically and you find yourself even starting on one topic and then ending up on another and just letting it go where the river flows, and sometimes those are the most fun.

00:58:04.059 --> 00:58:09.969
Amazing. This was the Midlife Crisis, this episode brought to you by Midlife.

00:58:09.969 --> 00:58:14.949
Crisis Incorporated. What is the typical midlife crisis products?

00:58:14.949 --> 00:58:17.079
By the way, you should be sponsored by that.

00:58:17.829 --> 00:58:19.630
I don't know. Is there a product?

00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:22.000
This episode is brought to you by Red Porsches.

00:58:26.949 --> 00:58:43.210
That would be fun. You're amazing, and I love the way your brain works, and thanks, and I appreciate you coming on and talk to him about the octopus movement and your journey and your story, and I definitely want you to come back again in the future.

00:58:43.420 --> 00:58:48.159
Yay. I would love that. Amazing.

00:58:43.420 --> 00:58:50.019
I love dancing with you, Kyle, so let's keep doing that.

00:58:50.710 --> 00:58:51.820
All right. Let's dance.